The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 12-20-2016, 10:29 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,763
Default

I agree with getting quality headphones to supplement your monitors...I bought a set of Sennheiser HD 650's to go along with my HS8 monitors. The combination works well for me as I now have two very good options to check accuracy of my recordings. I also check my recordings by burning a cd and listening to the mix on my truck's cd player. I have a factory sound system that sounds pretty good, which gives me a good idea if a mix is acceptable or not. So having three reference points to check my mixes to see if they cut the mustard or not, works well for me. Problems will usually stand out in one of the three checks.
__________________
2013 Martin D-35
1975 Martin D-18
1997 Taylor 450 12 String
2015 Pono DS-20
2017 Taylor GS mini Bass
2017 Gretsch G5438T Pro Jet w/ Bigsby
2003 Fender Telecaster
2002 Fender Stratacaster
1992 Fender Stratacaster Wayne's World LE
A very well equipped 8-track home studio,
For audio and midi recording.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-20-2016, 10:43 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,737
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
I also check my recordings by burning a cd and listening to the mix on my truck's cd player. I have a factory sound system that sounds pretty good, which gives me a good idea if a mix is acceptable or not. So having three reference points to check my mixes to see if they cut the mustard or not, works well for me. Problems will usually stand out in one of the three checks.
This is a very good idea and one that I will use... putting two files, mine and a favorite professional mix on the same CD so that I can go back and forth.
__________________
Website: http://www.buzzardwhiskey.com
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-20-2016, 10:47 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,089
Default

I had been using a pair of Mackie HR624 monitors for about 8 years. I thought they were okay but my mixes didn't always transfer well. One of them died over the summer and I picked up a set of Neumann KH120 monitors and they're heads and tails better than the Mackies for me.

My project studio isn't large and I have no choice but to have my monitors close to a wall. For that reason, I opted to avoid any monitors with bass ports on the back. Even though my room is treated fairly well, I didn't want all that bass reflection. The Neumanns gave a more silky top end than the Mackies did and I'm finding that my mixes are transferring much better. I'm really impressed with these and I don't think there's a better choice at their price point.
__________________
Jim

coming soon 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
2002 Taylor 814ce Limited cocobolo/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce


SoundCloud link
Spotify
YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-20-2016, 01:36 PM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 6,940
Send a message via Yahoo to Sage97
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
I agree with getting quality headphones to supplement your monitors...I bought a set of Sennheiser HD 650's to go along with my HS8 monitors. The combination works well for me as I now have two very good options to check accuracy of my recordings. I also check my recordings by burning a cd and listening to the mix on my truck's cd player. I have a factory sound system that sounds pretty good, which gives me a good idea if a mix is acceptable or not. So having three reference points to check my mixes to see if they cut the mustard or not, works well for me. Problems will usually stand out in one of the three checks.
I also use headphones but instead of burning a cd, I save as an MP3, download it on my phone and play it in my car ia Bluetooth as most people do. That way I get to hear it in 3 different systems. Fortunately for me, my recordings are so simple that they do not sound too different from system to system. I've learned to trust my Adam A7s as the reference point and do minor tweaks when playing through other systems.
__________________
"Dreams are the answers to questions that we haven't figured out how to ask." - Mulder
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-20-2016, 03:45 PM
cotten's Avatar
cotten cotten is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 26,296
Default

You guys' comments are being most helpful, and I sincerely appreciate it! I have a lot to learn about playing guitar, but everything to learn about the art and science of recording!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
So to clarify so there is no misunderstanding... your OP and a few subsequent posts seemed to have been interested in the discussing the theoretical "value of more expensive monitors" so that is what my and some other posts have been addressing.
I don't think I misunderstood your post, Kev. It made perfect sense to me, IF I had already made the commitment to get into recording in the best ways I can. I should probably do that, but for now my focus is going to remain on performing, with recording in a distant second place. Still, your comments and those of others here have addressed exactly the kind of things I was wondering about. Your taking time to share your wisdom, opinions, and experience is most appreciated!

There's a local pawn shop with a pair of JBL LSR305s with an asking price of $160. Don't know if they'll let me try then out at home, or even in the store, but if so, those might be sufficient, at least as an introduction to get my feet wet. Won't consider them if I can't try them first, of course, but just maybe they'll work as "training wheels" to get me started. If so, perhaps my next step will be to consider a good general purpose, starter microphone. That will lead to room treatment, and perhaps something other than my BR-1600 (I also have an H4N that I've used for portable recording, and a 5-yr. old laptop...) So things could get expensive in a hurry if I'm not carefully frugal.

Just trying to take one thing at a time, and monitors seemed like a good place to start. Appreciate the help!

cotten
__________________
Soli Deo Gloria

McKnight AGF Award
2000 Taylor 914c
1995 Taylor Cotten 612c
2017 Taylor 214ce Koa Deluxe For Sale http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=481979
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-20-2016, 04:10 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotten View Post
You guys' comments are being most helpful, and I sincerely appreciate it! I have a lot to learn about playing guitar, but everything to learn about the art and science of recording! I don't think I misunderstood your post, Kev. It made perfect sense to me, IF I had already made the commitment to get into recording in the best ways I can. I should probably do that, but for now my focus is going to remain on performing, with recording in a distant second place. Still, your comments and those of others here have addressed exactly the kind of things I was wondering about. Your taking time to share your wisdom, opinions, and experience is most appreciated!

There's a local pawn shop with a pair of JBL LSR305s with an asking price of $160. Don't know if they'll let me try then out at home, or even in the store, but if so, those might be sufficient, at least as an introduction to get my feet wet. Won't consider them if I can't try them first, of course, but just maybe they'll work as "training wheels" to get me started. If so, perhaps my next step will be to consider a good general purpose, starter microphone. That will lead to room treatment, and perhaps something other than my BR-1600 (I also have an H4N that I've used for portable recording, and a 5-yr. old laptop...) So things could get expensive in a hurry if I'm not carefully frugal.

Just trying to take one thing at a time, and monitors seemed like a good place to start. Appreciate the help!

cotten
As to the JBL LSR305, a couple of points.

First, JBL says the monitor handles down to 43Hz, which is a lie/fib, if you consider the low frequency published spec should be set at where the bass has fallen off by -3dB, which is industry standard. Monitors with 5" drivers just don't perform at -3dB at 43Hz. It's just physics. That 43Hz spec is likely a -10 or worse falloff at that frequency. Since you use bass guitar in your recordings, that monitor will not give you a correct playback below about 75Hz or so in terms of amplitude.

Second, it has a rear port. If you place your monitors anywhere near a wall (towards the back) you are going to get another bass frequencies anomaly - an inaccurate and mushy exaggerated bass response.

The two will tend to cancel each other out at least in terms of amplitude, but the lack of accuracy will be magnified.

Of course, this is not the end of the world or anything. But it is quite possible that you will end up replacing the LSR305s with something else down the road. Better to buy once, not twice.

Last edited by sdelsolray; 12-20-2016 at 04:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-20-2016, 04:51 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Second, it has a rear port. If you place your monitors anywhere near a wall (towards the back) you are going to get another bass frequencies anomaly - an inaccurate and mushy exaggerated bass response.
Yep. Because my studio is small and I have no choice but to have my monitors near a wall, I took everything with a rear port out of the running when I was doing my research.
__________________
Jim

coming soon 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
2002 Taylor 814ce Limited cocobolo/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce


SoundCloud link
Spotify
YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-20-2016, 05:00 PM
cotten's Avatar
cotten cotten is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 26,296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
As to the JBL LSR305, a couple of points. First, JBL says the monitor handles down to 43Hz, which is a lie/fib,... Better to buy once, not twice.
Thanks. I really didn't expect a flat response down to the low B on my 5-string bass, but point well taken. If it did my travel rig would be a LOT lighter! Could I use my bass amp as a sub with the 305s? And yes, the farthest from the wall that I can probably place monitors would be about 3', so I was expecting to need something to break up those early bass reflections. But the main thing you said that gets my attention is "better to buy once, not twice. Wish I'd done that with a couple of my first guitars!

But then again, if I'd waited until I could afford a decent guitar I might not be playing at all today. At 13, my lawn mowing money just didn't allow me to get anything above the cheapest thing out there. Today I know how bad my first guitar really was, but back then, I loved it, bleeding fingers and all! That's no exaggeration - the action was so high that my fingertips would be bleeding in an hour. I knew nothing of "setups" back then, but still I loved trying to make 6-string music. Still do!

From what you've read of my situation, sdelsolray or anyone else, which monitors do think would make the most sense?

cotten
__________________
Soli Deo Gloria

McKnight AGF Award
2000 Taylor 914c
1995 Taylor Cotten 612c
2017 Taylor 214ce Koa Deluxe For Sale http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=481979
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-20-2016, 05:08 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,089
Default

I don't know what your budget is, but I got a pair of these from Vintage King for $1320 shipped. Neumann KH 120

I really do love them. Someone has a used pair on eBay that might be had for cheap.
__________________
Jim

coming soon 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
2002 Taylor 814ce Limited cocobolo/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce


SoundCloud link
Spotify
YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-20-2016, 05:59 PM
Bob Womack's Avatar
Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
Guitar Gourmet
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Between Clever and Stupid
Posts: 19,675
Default

I had a wonderful example of the results of limited low-end frequency response in the monitors in someone's recording chain today while I was out shopping for my wife. I had National Public Radio News on my car's subwoofed stereo system. The NPR host threw to a reporter to talk about a terrorist attack and suddenly my car was filled with the powerful, forced ultra-low-frequency thrusts of a hip-hop kick drum and synth bass rattling my brains. Apparently the vocal booth that the reporter used had low-frequency acoustic bleed from an adjacent editing suite or she recorded her voice in a car and another car with a blaster stereo came alongside for the whole time the reporter was recording. Also, apparently no-one in the signal chain from recordist to editor to broadcast control room to transmission control room had monitors with enough low-frequency response to reproduce this cacophony because it went on and on for the entire two minute report... then the mind-numbing blast magically went away.

That's the problem with saying, "Acoustic guitar only goes down to about 100hz so I don't need full-range monitors." If the region below 80hz isn't reproduced to some you really have no idea what is happening to your recording down there. There could be weak bass, an A/C hum, a 60hz line hum, too much proximity bass tilt-up, your four year old thumping the baseboard downstairs, or flabby bass going on and you just can't tell. I get it: home recordists don't need expensive monitors. But don't find yourself missing a huge portion of the spectrum in your monitors. Buy a cheap stereo system subwoofer and only turn it on to check for screw-ups, but don't embarrass yourself and allow a nasty, distracting abnormality that everyone else but you can hear to overshadow your mixes.

Bob
__________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-20-2016, 06:10 PM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 828
Send a message via Yahoo to Trevor B.
Default

I use a pair of near field Adam F7s (the affordable line) in my small home studio in which I record acoustic guitar (2 tracks) alone or occasionally with voice and very occasionally with some vocal harmonies added to the mix. Given my modest needs and the fact that I only use the monitors for mixing these speakers serve my purposes extremely well.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-20-2016, 06:15 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,763
Default

Regarding the rear bass port on the HS8's. My speakers do indeed sit about 6" inches from the rear wall, however I have a very thick quilt mounted on the wall that absorbs a lot of the bass. I know it's not a theoretically correct installation, but it does seem to work out nicely, by chance. I'm getting a very rich bass sound which was enhanced by the Aurelex Isolation Pads. So together I'm getting better results than I expected. The HS8's sounds great.

Here's a pic showing the monitor, quilt, Isolation Pads and lava lamp, gotta have a lava lamp.

__________________
2013 Martin D-35
1975 Martin D-18
1997 Taylor 450 12 String
2015 Pono DS-20
2017 Taylor GS mini Bass
2017 Gretsch G5438T Pro Jet w/ Bigsby
2003 Fender Telecaster
2002 Fender Stratacaster
1992 Fender Stratacaster Wayne's World LE
A very well equipped 8-track home studio,
For audio and midi recording.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-20-2016, 06:37 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotten View Post
...
From what you've read of my situation, sdelsolray or anyone else, which monitors do think would make the most sense?

cotten
Because of your use of a bass guitar with a low B, the most parsimonious solution is to add a sub to a pair of nearfield monitors. That's just the way it is.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-20-2016, 06:39 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
...
I have a very thick quilt mounted on the wall that absorbs a lot of the bass.
...
Quilts do not absorb bass frequencies. We've gone over this before.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-20-2016, 06:53 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Quilts do not absorb bass frequencies. We've gone over this before.
Yep. Quilts, egg cartons, moving blankets, foam ...none of that stuff actually does much.
__________________
Jim

coming soon 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
2002 Taylor 814ce Limited cocobolo/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce


SoundCloud link
Spotify
YouTube
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=