The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Events and New Releases

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 11-29-2016, 04:02 AM
Michael Watts Michael Watts is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 2,311
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandaroo View Post
I was not surprised they chose to relaunch Avian. Last July, I went to Guitarlair in Kuala Lumpur housing reputable boutique guitars such as Kronbauer, Webber, Huss & Dalton, Collings, Bedell, Lowden, Avalon, Northwood just to name a few, I walked out with a Collings and an Avian Skylark. The Avians were that good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Jon View Post
Haha! I know you mean that in a positive, business way, but "Aggressive" is about the last word I'd use to describe Ben or Michael.
Only ever seen them on video, They seem like incredibly nice polite young gentlemen.

No affiliation apart from sharing the same town, I dare not imagine how much rent and rates they must pay , that's a pretty up-market location I can tell 'ee !
Quote:
Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
I meant that in a positive way. They have a pretty broad presence and Michael takes the trouble to really shine a spotlight on everything that comes in the door. They keep their Facebook content fresh. Michael makes a lot of appearances at guitar shows, and he keeps a close relationship with his builders. That's what I mean by "aggressive." I didn't mean like a used car salesman, so I hope it didnt' come across that way. I'm actually very impressed by how they market guitars and think they do a great job.

I've always imagined that they are in a very expensive neighborhood. Now I know!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukejon View Post
Can't really comment on the business plan (I'm an Art Historian!) but I've been to TNAG and also have benefitted from Michael's generous friendship and advice. Top tier guy and the best guitar shop I've ever visited. Certainly wish them all the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveh View Post
I've just looked at the TNAG vid just put up on the 'tube.

Very well done but there is no description at all regarding what it is the "investor" gets back. I think that's a serious omission when 99.9% of their audience will not be "business people" but guitarists, likely unfamiliar with thsi sort of thing.

I've used similar schemes twice: Once to fund an Allan Holdsworth album that I was sent a copy of subsequently in return for my upfront investment. The second time a friemd was putting together a copy of a photography book and when done, I got a copy.

I don't have any feel for what the investor gets here? I did go to their Crowdfunding page in order to glean more but it required personal details etc. for access to the full scheme. Yeah. Right. Goodbye. I'll give them details when I'm ready to invest, not just to find out what the scheme is all about.

Perhaps Michael will chip in here?
He needs to.

Cheers,
Steve
Hello all!

I'm here to answer any questions you may have. For full details of Crowd Cube and the way they work I can only recommend that you register with them. They are the UK's foremost funding platform and have handled nearly 200,000,000 (that's around $250,000,000) of funding revenue since they were first set up.

Now, as for what we are doing, why and how I can certainly provide a few more details here.

Since our inception in 2011 we have approached growth cautiously, having seen first hand how over-investment in stock and/or premises can hole a business below the waterline. We have had regular offers of funding from individuals since that time but we have been extremely wary of potentially diluting our brand by selling a controlling share of our business.

However... The past couple of years have brought with them further growth, and, of particular interest, some amazing opportunities which would have meant diverting working capital. Something that we just weren't prepared to do.

The Crowd Cube campaign is intended to raise the capital needed to tackle these opportunities as well as allowing us some room for extra growth. Crowd Cube works like any other crowdfunding platform in that it allows people who appreciate what we do to support us. We are a 3-man team working hard and smart, and we have a clear vision of what we can achieve in the years to come.

We started this business with the aim of representing the work of a select roster of the finest guitar builders in the world. It began with me closing build slots from the corner of my living room in early 2011 and evolved into a bricks and mortar showroom in London by 2013. As we get ready to close our 6th year of business, I can say (with the exception of fatherhood) that this is the most worthwhile and exciting business I have ever been a part of. This is my 10th year in dealing guitars. I have spent a full quarter of my life doing this and I love it.

Now, the AGF rightly has rules in place about fundraising for any purpose and as such I would invite those of you with further questions and observations (thank you all for your feedback so far) to contact me either by PM or email at michaelwatts@thenorthamericanguitar.com

Thank you!

MW
__________________
Buy the new album "Vetiver" here!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-29-2016, 04:26 AM
M19's Avatar
M19 M19 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes
Posts: 6,336
Default

Michael, you might benefit from giving folks a general idea of "return" they might realize from their "investment."
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:45 AM
kkrell kkrell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 315
Default

I tried looking into it, but every thing screams "run away" to me. Too much sharing of my personal info to even get registered with Crowdcube (even via Facebook or Google login), and makes some of my profile info public.

Investment via public stock exchanges is far more transparent (and probably better regulated), and privacy is maintained. There's just more info readily available about the potential investment - financials, including profit margins, employee compensations, etc. Even Kickstarter allows you to see what's on offer, and what rewards are anticipated, without signing up. Crowdcube does list the risks inherent in any investment on their site. If anyone has registered and would care to leak us some details of TNAG, it would be interesting to evaluate why they're unable to finance it on their own. How successful is the company thus far, and is it currently providing a good living for its owners and employees? The total estimated valuation of approx. GBP 1.4 million is not very high - I'd consider that a very small business. Hard to generate enough to pay the rent, and take home some pay. Depends on how much they've been taking out of it so far, and how much is purchased inventory vs., perhaps, consignment.

The only info viewable on Crowdcube without going through registration is that a 20% equity is being offered up for investment. Near as I can tell, the "shares" are in a privately held company, which means there is likely little prospect of any revenue sharing, and, no actual shares to ever be able to sell whether the business prospers or not. Usually in such situations, one might look for Limited or General Partners (or whatever the UK equivalent is). I'm guessing there is no security for the debt, as often would be asked of if it were a business loan.

Sorry, I would never have run or expanded my own business in this way. I don't see why if the prospects are so good (especially with the distribution deal) then why not a business loan or line of credit against inventory and receivables, and possibly the assets of the owners? You know, like most businesses? If any vendors want to help float some inventory, too, then that would be wonderful. Otherwise, it strikes me that they are woefully underfunded and not currently profitable enough to even consider this large a growth step, however promising bringing the Avian line in might seem. Sure, there can be risk-takers willing to invest in any venture, or to help out friends, but I doubt I'd put my money there.
__________________
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
Recognized by the IRS as a Public Charity
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs
http://www.worldtrad.org
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:13 AM
kkrell kkrell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 315
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Jon View Post
...I dare not imagine how much rent and rates they must pay , that's a pretty up-market location I can tell 'ee !
My rough, possibly uninformed estimate is approx. GBP 5000 per month for that space if leased at current rates. If so, a good chunk of revenue. I hope cash flow is good.
__________________
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
Recognized by the IRS as a Public Charity
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs
http://www.worldtrad.org
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-02-2016, 02:22 PM
amyFB amyFB is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Lehigh Valley, Eastern PA
Posts: 4,531
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkrell View Post
......
Sorry, I would never have run or expanded my own business in this way. I don't see why if the prospects are so good (especially with the distribution deal) then why not a business loan or line of credit against inventory and receivables, and possibly the assets of the owners? You know, like most businesses? If any vendors want to help float some inventory, too, then that would be wonderful. Otherwise, it strikes me that they are woefully underfunded and not currently profitable enough to even consider this large a growth step, however promising bringing the Avian line in might seem. Sure, there can be risk-takers willing to invest in any venture, or to help out friends, but I doubt I'd put my money there.
I don't think you need to apologize for taking a different route for raising capital for your business.

I do think that we all should consider that there are things we don't know about the specific circumstances of a given situation or opportunity.

the great thing about the internet and the AGF is how easily information can be obtained to answer our detailed questions.

crowdcube is like kickstarter, gofundme, or any other crowdfunding site. they are there to facilitate collection of funds. the individual fund is the responsibility of the individual that created the crowdfunding account at crowdcube.

I guess we can assume the worst or assume the best when we first encounter an opportunity, but in either case, I hope we will all agree that first impressions might change with the results of info gathering, and, that what's good for one of us might not be suitable for another of us (or vice versa).

Just a few posts before this one, there was a long info post submitted by one of the folks involved in this new venture, and it included an email where any of us could write for more info. here is that info again: I would invite those of you with further questions and observations (thank you all for your feedback so far) to contact me either by PM or email at michaelwatts@thenorthamericanguitar.com
__________________
amyFb

Huss & Dalton CM
McKnight MacNaught
Breedlove Custom 000
Albert & Mueller S
Martin LXE
Voyage-Air VM04
Eastman AR605CE
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-02-2016, 05:20 PM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 1,290
Default

Post removed, didn't belong here.

Last edited by Carbonius; 12-03-2016 at 12:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-06-2016, 11:40 AM
borborygmus borborygmus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 21
Default

I think it is worth understanding that Crowdcube is not the same as Kickstarter, Pledge, etc. With the latter, you are basically lending funds to a project, easing cashflow, until you receive the goods or services promised. It's a form of pre-payment, usually with some perks to encourage you.

Crowdcube is equity crowd funding - in return for the funds, you receive a shareholding. Return on your investment will come if the business succeeds and decides to start paying dividends, or if the business in purchased by someone else in the future. It is certainly more speculative than a Kickstarter project.

In the UK and elsewhere, this form of business funding is growing very quickly, and is recognised as being a very legitimate method. It stems from the antipathy of our conventional banks for lending to small and medium sized businesses since the credit crunch. Crowdcube and other similar platforms have received regulatory approval from the Financial Services Authority.



Any business, when there is a need for more working capital to fund expansion, will have a number of options. Selling shares is one valid and popular way. The benefit to the original company shareholders is that they spread the risk... and in return, dilute their potential rewards. A new investor will understand that they are taking on risk, but consider it worthwhile if they think there's a good upside.

Crowdcube et al will have a detailed registration process, I presume, to meet regulatory requirements. The platforms need to know that you understand the risk profile of making these kinds of investments, and before they allow you to have detailed information concerning what are, after all, privately held companies. In a similar way, we would like gambling websites to have some controls to prevent kids betting.

Sorry for the "non-guitar" stuff - I just thought some explanation from a third party was in order.
__________________
Oxfordshire, UK
Guitars by: Tom Sands, Michael Bashkin, Jeff Bamburg, C F Martin, Patrick James Eggle, John Kinnaird, Yairi, Yamaha, Gretsch, Fender, Camps
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Events and New Releases

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=