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View Poll Results: Powered PA Speaker or Acoustic Amp
Powered PA Speaker 19 51.35%
Acoustic Amp 18 48.65%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 07-30-2016, 03:27 PM
Nick84 Nick84 is offline
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Default Powered PA speaker or Acoustic Amp?

Here's my scenario I currently gig with a Yamaha Stagepas 600i. Very happy with it does everything I need for guitar and vocals. I run my mic through a harmony singer then out to the stagepas mixer and my guitar goes through a Radial PZ DI to the stagepas mixer. The mixer has a 1/4 input to send a line out for a powered monitor speaker.

I bought a TC Helicon VoiceSolo FX150 to use as a small practice PA at home and as a small floor/wedge monitor out on gigs thinking it would be more than enough. 12 months of trying to use it as a floor monitor have proved it doesn't cut it. I can't hear it and it's not usable. It's a great little PA for home practice and maybe VERY small coffee shops but that's were I'd draw the line.

Anyway sorry for going on, here's the question. Do I buy a acoustic amp and run everything through that and then DI out from the amp to the Stagepas and use the amp for practice at home.

Or do I buy a powered PA speaker and use that as a monitor. I have a 2 channel mixer that I could use with it for home practice.

1st priority is live stage monitoring and 2nd is practice at home.
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Old 07-30-2016, 07:29 PM
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cotten cotten is offline
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In your situation, I'd go with a small, quality acoustic amp. It would do exactly what you want, smaller gigs by itself and as a monitor for larger ones. It would, I think, give you the flexibility you're looking for.

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Old 07-30-2016, 11:06 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Line 6 L3T or L2T.
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Old 07-30-2016, 11:13 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotten View Post
In your situation, I'd go with a small, quality acoustic amp. It would do exactly what you want, smaller gigs by itself and as a monitor for larger ones. It would, I think, give you the flexibility you're looking for.

cotten
That gets my vote, too.

Louis
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Old 07-31-2016, 02:17 AM
Nick84 Nick84 is offline
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I forgot to mention my budget is around the 300/$400.

how much power and how small an amp can I get that will still work as a floor monitor? I don't want to be in the same situation with the TC unit were I can't here it.

Powered PA I was looking at a Mackie SRM350?

I do like the Line 6 stuff but they are out of my price range.
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:54 AM
nhbiker1961 nhbiker1961 is offline
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I personally run a Fishman mini with a DI out to the house PA no matter how small the gig. Reason:
1. EQ of the guitar with effects such as chorus built into amp
2. Amp becomes my stage monitor for the guitar.
3. 2 vocalist in my duo
4. PA gives better room coverage than amp and allows floor monitors if needed
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Old 07-31-2016, 05:17 AM
Nick84 Nick84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhbiker1961 View Post
I personally run a Fishman mini with a DI out to the house PA no matter how small the gig. Reason:
1. EQ of the guitar with effects such as chorus built into amp
2. Amp becomes my stage monitor for the guitar.
3. 2 vocalist in my duo
4. PA gives better room coverage than amp and allows floor monitors if needed
So when you use the amp as a monitor do you just get your guitar coming through the amp with no vocals?

I want my full mix to come through the monitor, guitar and vocal. My concern with the Fishman is if I run my vocal and guitar through it then DI out to the PA my guitar will sound great but my vocals not so great?
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Old 07-31-2016, 05:35 AM
nhbiker1961 nhbiker1961 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick84 View Post
So when you use the amp as a monitor do you just get your guitar coming through the amp with no vocals?

I want my full mix to come through the monitor, guitar and vocal. My concern with the Fishman is if I run my vocal and guitar through it then DI out to the PA my guitar will sound great but my vocals not so great?
I only run the guitar through the amp. I am running a powered 8 channel mixer with great effects and equalization for the vocals. As far as the channel that I run the DI from the fishman to the pa, That is set to flat with no effects. All my effects on the guitar are coming from amp or my pedalboard. We have a seperate floor monitor for vocals. But you can run your vocals through the Fishman amp. It's 2 channels with seperate effects and volume, so you can control the mix. But personally I do not want vocals coming through my guitar amp at gigs. Sitting in my living room is fine.

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Old 07-31-2016, 06:07 AM
Nick84 Nick84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhbiker1961 View Post
I only run the guitar through the amp. I am running a powered 8 channel mixer with great effects and equalization for the vocals. As far as the channel that I run the DI from the fishman to the pa, That is set to flat with no effects. All my effects on the guitar are coming from amp or my pedalboard. We have a seperate floor monitor for vocals. But you can run your vocals through the Fishman amp. It's 2 channels with seperate effects and volume, so you can control the mix. But personally I do not want vocals coming through my guitar amp at gigs. Sitting in my living room is fine.

So it's sounding to me that I may need a powered PA speaker to get a mix of my vocals and guitar coming through. As much as I'd love one of each I couldn't fit it in my small hatchback car with my PA and guitars already in there! Hearing my vocals is just as important to me as hearing my guitar as it's coming out through my main PA speakers.

It would be interesting to hear the people's views who have voted powered pa as the poll is pretty much even.
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Old 07-31-2016, 06:28 AM
nhbiker1961 nhbiker1961 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick84 View Post
So it's sounding to me that I may need a powered PA speaker to get a mix of my vocals and guitar coming through. As much as I'd love one of each I couldn't fit it in my small hatchback car with my PA and guitars already in there! Hearing my vocals is just as important to me as hearing my guitar as it's coming out through my main PA speakers.

It would be interesting to hear the people's views who have voted powered pa as the poll is pretty much even.
It depends on the type of gig. I am typically playing in noisy bars or clubs as an acoustic duo or trio where on other occasions there might be a 5 piece band. An amp by itself will not cut through. But you may be playing at quieter venues where it will work. Powered speakers I find heavy for acoustic shows, so I went with passive speakers. Some gigs I run 2, some just one. Some I run 2 mains with a floor monitor like the picture I posted. We fit all of this in a Chevy Tracker. I am running a digital Peavey powered mixer, very light.12 inch passive speakers, also light. Then when I go to a 3 peice with a percussionist, I have enough channels to mic is hand drums. This works for me. To me, the guitar amp does not have enough bottom end for vocal mics in these noisy clubs.
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Old 07-31-2016, 06:34 AM
nhbiker1961 nhbiker1961 is offline
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Also, I avoid putting too much guitar in the vocal floor monitor. Acoustic guitars are known to feed back a lot and floor monitors are usually the culprit. The audience hears it through the mains which those speakers are in front of me and I hear most of the guitar through my amp, and a little through the floor wedge. I depend on the floor monitor mostly for vocals. Typically I will turn it towards the lead vocalist so I don't get feedback from the guitar even though it is not a lot of guitar being sent to it. I am only singing a few songs in any given night. Same with our percussionist, he is only coming out of Mains, we hear him on stage acoustically only.
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:43 AM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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If you get an amp like a Fishman Loudbox Artist, you will be able to plug your guitar and your vocal mic into the amp and control the EQ and effects of each channel and the balance for either a small gig or for your stage monitoring, and in the latter case you will be able to send separate, direct, pre-EQ/FX signals from each channel to your PA or the house PA so they can be mixed properly for the audience. Depending on what kind of pickup you have in your guitar, you may find that having the amp behind you and off the floor on an amp stand of some kind is better for monitoring than on the floor in front of you pointing up.

If you prefer to take a monitor mix out of your PA, you can still do it this way with the Artist. Just use the Aux input, and it becomes, basically, a small powered speaker.

There are other amps with these features, so if you decide to take the amp route look for them.

Just one question about how you use the Stagepass: Have you tried setting up the speakers above head height and either completely or a little behind you? For most gigs that would be a good fit for a little PA like that (that is, not too loud), you should be able to get away with that kind of set up without a monitor and without feedback.

Louis
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:59 AM
Irish Pennant Irish Pennant is offline
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The video that describes the Stagepas shows a Yamaha DBR10 as the floor monitor. The DBR10 falls within your budget and has more than enough power to be an effective floor monitor. I have DBR12s that I use with A&H Zed mixers and I have nothing bad to say about them.

For what you want out of your floor monitor, I would choose the DBR10 over an acoustic amp. I think it would also be a closer match to your mains.
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Old 07-31-2016, 12:22 PM
blackeyeddog blackeyeddog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotten View Post
In your situation, I'd go with a small, quality acoustic amp. It would do exactly what you want, smaller gigs by itself and as a monitor for larger ones. It would, I think, give you the flexibility you're looking for.

cotten
*Skip to the last paragraph for my focused response here! Ha!

This is my perspective as well. I've used everything from the small Ultrasound amps, to the Bose L1s, SoloAmp, QSC K10s, Allen & Heath mixers, Marshall AS100D, and many others.

Right now I'm running a Fishman Loudbox Mini into an EV EKX15P powered speaker. I needed something I could raise up and get more volume out of for my downtown shows. I'm actually quite impressed with the EV and took a chance on it bc I found it on sale. I've had several folks come up and compliment the sound and some nerds like us wanting to know just what my setup is...so, it seems to be working well.

However, ideally I'll most likely go with 2 QSC K10s, a K8 for a small monitor and for more intimate gigs, and then expand with some bass units if necessary. Of all the products I've used, the QSC setup seemed to work the best, be the most reliable, was the lightest (one K10 on a raised stand is far easier than this EV 15" beast), and I personally like the flat response it provides. Some people feel the K10 has a "dead" or "sterile" sound, but that's probably bc they're used to setups that color their tone. They also have an awesome warranty and if you get into a pinch, they sell super fast used.

I've been using the same on-the-floor Fishman Platinum EQ/DI since '05 with an in-line tuner (had a Korg Pitchblack for many years). Currently hung up on this Fishman Rare Earth Blend soundhole p'up after owning a custom Breedlove that had the built-in version and it was killer. First real gig with the Breedlove was a live radio performance and the sound guy immediately asked me what it was, saying it was the best sound he'd had straight into the board in all the years he'd been there (this is a very popular show, so it was a huge compliment). Thinking about exploring other EQ/DI's, but simplicity is bliss for me when I'm performing.

All this being said, I've played everywhere from a small coffee shop w/ 3 people in it during a snow storm to festivals, and I've found over the years that no matter what system I plug into, the one thing that remains consistent is having a great tone BEFORE it's amplified. So, getting your EQ, p'up, etc., optimized and flowing together before plugging it in is crucial. A little tweak here and there and you can plug into just about anything and make it sound wonderful.
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Old 07-31-2016, 12:33 PM
zhunter zhunter is offline
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I don't think you can consider a spot monitor as a straight up substitute for a floor wedge. They are really spot monitors meant to be fairly close to the user. Even if you perform seated, you need to get the monitor off the floor and closer to your head. A short bass drum/amp mic stand (in the 20" range) typically raises the monitor up enough to be heard pretty well when playing seated. If you are playing standing, you need to get a standard mic stand that allows you to get the monitor waist to chest high. I assume the TC has a mic stand mount?

Try this and maybe you can use what you have already.

BTW, most amps have far too little tilt back to be ideally suited as floor monitors.

hunter
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