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  #16  
Old 12-13-2016, 02:42 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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No Magnetic pick-up will give you what you seek. Neither will a Piezo system in my experience. I use a Schertler "Stat-V" system on my personal arhtop, and it sounds amazingly natural to me. On the other hand, if I want to sound like a contemporary jazz guitarist my Bartolini is superior. Depends on the gig. The Stat is not cheap, but it works very well.
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  #17  
Old 12-14-2016, 05:43 PM
Pnewsom Pnewsom is offline
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Crank up the bridge, this will shorten the decay and add punch. Imagine the sound you want to hear, and try to draw it out of the guitar and the amp by how you play.

How hard you dig into the strings with the pick affects how much bass comes out. A light brushing stroke in the middle area of the strumming area can help get that acoustic texture through the amp.

Think of your strings as the diaphragm of a microphone, the pick up is the magnet. What you do the guitar will come through the amp, it's just a matter of adjusting your touch to get the sound you want. It's where the majic lives.
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  #18  
Old 12-15-2016, 03:23 PM
RobT RobT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
No Magnetic pick-up will give you what you seek. Neither will a Piezo system in my experience. I use a Schertler "Stat-V" system on my personal arhtop, and it sounds amazingly natural to me. On the other hand, if I want to sound like a contemporary jazz guitarist my Bartolini is superior. Depends on the gig. The Stat is not cheap, but it works very well.
Bruce, Would you please expand on how you mount the Schertler Stat V on your archtop.
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2016, 12:33 PM
Al Pesto Al Pesto is offline
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I've tried various things over the years to get My L50 that illusive amplified archtop sound. I once had a new pick guard made with a Johnny Smith pickup. It sounded too electric.

I am currently using a Fishman archtop pickup into an EQ pedal (Source Audio) into a Compressor pedal (MXR Custom Comp Deluxe) into a 70's Fender Champ upgraded with a much heavier and less efficient speaker. It's getting closer.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2016, 04:39 PM
capefisherman capefisherman is offline
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Jomaymor - jeeeezusss. Wow. Back to practicing my scales.
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  #21  
Old 12-21-2016, 12:52 PM
PistolPete PistolPete is offline
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Following the unexpected death of the t-bone, which suddenly developed a bad connection, I've just taken delivery of an AKG C411 contact mic. I will be trying it in anger on stage tomorrow night, but I've posted some audio clips in a thread I started in the 'amplification' sub forum.
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  #22  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:33 PM
jomaynor jomaynor is offline
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Jomaymor - jeeeezusss. Wow. Back to practicing my scales.

Ha! Yeah, Olli is a monster! (A baby-faced, extremely nice one.)

His main deal, though, is gypsy jazz, served up sizzling: he's blindingly fast but still clean and coherent. Go see Rhythm Future when they play near you. Killer.

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  #23  
Old 01-19-2017, 09:39 AM
campusfive campusfive is offline
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Yeah, a magnetic pickup will never get you the proper timbre or decay of an acoustic archtop. I've tried most of the piezo/contact transducers (K&K), and I've never liked the sound of them at all.

I have had great success with using a lavalier mic/clip on gooseneck combination. Initially there was a sound guy who wanted to put an Audio Technica Pro35 clip on mic on my sax player, but my sax player was deadset against because part of his technique was "working the mic" (sadly this soundguy didn't really understand the concept of the band making its own dynamics, ugh). Anyway, I tried the mic on my acoustic archtop (an Eastman 805 non cut at the time), and it was fantastic, and very convenient. Previously, I used mic-stand mounted small-diaphragm condenser, and it was an eyesore, running every picture of me playing, but it also was very impractical.

The key thing with such a clip-on mic, is that you NEED some kind of "mute switch", since there's no volume knob. Otherwise, no matter where you turn, or put the guitar down, there's a relatively sensitive microphone always on, waiting to feedback should you turn the guitar the wrong way. We guitar players, especially those of us who grew up electric players are used to having someway to turn our instrument off between songs, while flipping pages, when changing guitars between songs. A simple XLR mute switch is essential.

Second, monitor placement is crucial. It turns out that, if I set stage left, a monitor on my left pointed straight down the line of my guitar neck is totally off-axis to the mic, and keeps the top of the guitar from reflecting the monitor into the mic. If I'm not going into a sound system with monitors, I use an AER Compact 60 positioned behind me, and to the left. By putting my body between the guitar and the amp, it goes a long way to isolating the mic from feedback.

I've used the AT831b mic with an AT8418 gooseneck for over 100 gigs, and it's worked great. I've since upgraded to the DPA4099C - which has a cello mount that fits on to the strings between the bridge and tailpiece - and the sound is superb and the mounting ideal. That said, even the lesser Pro35 was still a huge improvement in practicality over anything I tried before AND it sounded great.

I used the very simple and cheap Rolls MS111 XLR mute switch for almost 3 years, and have only recently upgraded to the Whirlwind MicMutePX. The main difference is that the Rolls111 has no indicator light, and since the DPA requires phantom, the most practical thing is to have the mute switch provide it. (FYI, Rolls doesn't block phantom when it mutes, so the mic isn't being shocked on and off constantly, but merely the audio is being cut - works great when it's just mic->rolls->AER).

The bonus version of my rig is that I will add an A/B box after the mute switch, and send each line to two separate channels on the board - one set for rhythm volume, and one boosted for solos. I've used a Radial ABo box, though being passive it had occasions where it popped through the speakers, and since there was no indicator light, it was too easy to confuse which channel I was playing through. I since upgraded to the ProCo Panic Button, which provides silent switching and an indicator light.

Once you add in the A/B box, the issue of phantom power becomes a bit tricky because it's probably not a great idea to send phantom from both, and depending on the A/B box, there's a question of whether it will even pass the phantom through on both or not. One advantage to the AT831b is that is comes with an inline battery pack, so it can power itself. Since adopting the MicMutePX, it provides phantom for my DPA and blocks all phantom coming before it.

Like with any microphone, placement is huge. I place it about an inch off the top, pointed more or less straight down, in the area between the strings and the treble f-hole, avoiding the f-hole because it just adds too much woofy-ness, and that's feedback city.

Here's an example of my set up at large event with a full big band. Bear in mind the audio is just a board feed, so it's not mixed perfectly, but it's certainly not bad. I know the sound of my L-5 pretty darn well, and it definitely comes through. The clip starts at the beginning of a three hour gig, so beware.
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2017, 04:33 PM
kkfan kkfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campusfive View Post
Yeah, a magnetic pickup will never get you the proper timbre or decay of an acoustic archtop. I've tried most of the piezo/contact transducers (K&K), and I've never liked the sound of them at all.



I have had great success with using a lavalier mic/clip on gooseneck combination. Initially there was a sound guy who wanted to put an Audio Technica Pro35 clip on mic on my sax player, but my sax player was deadset against because part of his technique was "working the mic" (sadly this soundguy didn't really understand the concept of the band making its own dynamics, ugh). Anyway, I tried the mic on my acoustic archtop (an Eastman 805 non cut at the time), and it was fantastic, and very convenient. Previously, I used mic-stand mounted small-diaphragm condenser, and it was an eyesore, running every picture of me playing, but it also was very impractical.



The key thing with such a clip-on mic, is that you NEED some kind of "mute switch", since there's no volume knob. Otherwise, no matter where you turn, or put the guitar down, there's a relatively sensitive microphone always on, waiting to feedback should you turn the guitar the wrong way. We guitar players, especially those of us who grew up electric players are used to having someway to turn our instrument off between songs, while flipping pages, when changing guitars between songs. A simple XLR mute switch is essential.



Second, monitor placement is crucial. It turns out that, if I set stage left, a monitor on my left pointed straight down the line of my guitar neck is totally off-axis to the mic, and keeps the top of the guitar from reflecting the monitor into the mic. If I'm not going into a sound system with monitors, I use an AER Compact 60 positioned behind me, and to the left. By putting my body between the guitar and the amp, it goes a long way to isolating the mic from feedback.



I've used the AT831b mic with an AT8418 gooseneck for over 100 gigs, and it's worked great. I've since upgraded to the DPA4099C - which has a cello mount that fits on to the strings between the bridge and tailpiece - and the sound is superb and the mounting ideal. That said, even the lesser Pro35 was still a huge improvement in practicality over anything I tried before AND it sounded great.



I used the very simple and cheap Rolls MS111 XLR mute switch for almost 3 years, and have only recently upgraded to the Whirlwind MicMutePX. The main difference is that the Rolls111 has no indicator light, and since the DPA requires phantom, the most practical thing is to have the mute switch provide it. (FYI, Rolls doesn't block phantom when it mutes, so the mic isn't being shocked on and off constantly, but merely the audio is being cut - works great when it's just mic->rolls->AER).



The bonus version of my rig is that I will add an A/B box after the mute switch, and send each line to two separate channels on the board - one set for rhythm volume, and one boosted for solos. I've used a Radial ABo box, though being passive it had occasions where it popped through the speakers, and since there was no indicator light, it was too easy to confuse which channel I was playing through. I since upgraded to the ProCo Panic Button, which provides silent switching and an indicator light.



Once you add in the A/B box, the issue of phantom power becomes a bit tricky because it's probably not a great idea to send phantom from both, and depending on the A/B box, there's a question of whether it will even pass the phantom through on both or not. One advantage to the AT831b is that is comes with an inline battery pack, so it can power itself. Since adopting the MicMutePX, it provides phantom for my DPA and blocks all phantom coming before it.



Like with any microphone, placement is huge. I place it about an inch off the top, pointed more or less straight down, in the area between the strings and the treble f-hole, avoiding the f-hole because it just adds too much woofy-ness, and that's feedback city.



Here's an example of my set up at large event with a full big band. Bear in mind the audio is just a board feed, so it's not mixed perfectly, but it's certainly not bad. I know the sound of my L-5 pretty darn well, and it definitely comes through. The clip starts at the beginning of a three hour gig, so beware.



Jonathan,

Thanks so much for the long post. The video, however, is not playing for some reason.

Here's a screenshot of the error displayed



Any idea why this is?
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2017, 04:37 PM
campusfive campusfive is offline
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It's probably something about the video permission not allowing an embed.

Try clicking through to youtube with this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV2M...youtu.be&t=494
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1932 Gibson L-5
1932 Epiphone De Luxe
1935 Gibson L-12
1937 Gibson ES-150
2012 National Style 1 (German Silver)
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2002 John LeVoi 12-fret Petite Bouche
1939 Gibson EH-185
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2017, 04:48 PM
kkfan kkfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campusfive View Post
It's probably something about the video permission not allowing an embed.



Try clicking through to youtube with this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV2M...youtu.be&t=494


That works!

Thanks!
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  #27  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:32 AM
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815C 815C is offline
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Wow! Lots of great info in this thread!

I'm thinking I will leave my L-5 as-is and try to obtain a 2nd arch top that will be set up with high action, stout strings, and one of the mics that clip on the tail piece.


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