Question for Electric Players

[510picker]

I just want to get some opinions of some people I trust (scary, ain't it).

I want to buy a good electric guitar but I am not sure which direction to go. I want something that is versatile since I am only going to have one electric. I want something that can do good clean sounds but can also get some good distortion.

Price is $700 - $1000 range.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[LarryH in Texas]

Doesn't it just bug you when people answer a question with another question? Well, you're gonna love this post . . .

What kind of music will you play through this electric??? Does the $700 to 1000 include the amp?

If you like the clear piercing tone of a single coil (think Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson, Buddy Guy or any one of a bunch of country pickers), go for a Strat or Tele. If you prefer the full round tones of a humbucker (think BB King, Les Paul), go for a used Gibson or new Epiphone, but be careful with the Epi, their QC can be really spotty.

If you look back through the forum, you may find a post by mapletrees that claims there are only about 5 worthy electrics (Strat, Tele, Gibson Les Paul, Gibson 335 and I forget the other one). You can get the Fenders in your price range, for sure if Made in Mexico, maybe if Made in USA. G & L (the L was Leo Fender after he sold the original company) makes Fender look-alikes that some people say are the equal of Fenders from the classic years. Heritage (a bunch of former Gibson employees who stayed in Kalamazoo when the company moved to Nashville) make guitars that look like the Gibsons of old. I think both Heritage and G & L are out of your price range.

Finally, the distortion should come from the amp or effects pedals/processors, not from the guitar. (IMO)

My eight cents (adjusted for inflation)

I guess I should mention that I have a Gibson 345 (like the 335, but with stereo and varitone) and a Gibson Nighthawk (combination of single-coil, double-coil and mini-humbucker). The 345 was my first good guitar and is the one I'd keep, even if I had to sell the others. The Nighthawk is really neat and pretty versatile, but would be the second to go, after the Baby T.

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: LarryH in Texas ]

[510picker]

Thanks for the reply Larry. I play mostly contemporary Christian music. I play on the praise and worship team at church. I use my Taylor 510 for that, but would like to "expand my horizons."

I want something with a good, clean sound that can be used for rhythm playing, but I also want something that can get a little dirty.

I didn't want to mention any of the brands I was considering, but you already mentioned one of the candidates, G&L. I like the Strat look and sounds, but also like the Gibson Les Paul sounds as well.

The money mentioned was only for the guitar.

[trivial]

If i were in your situation...or if i could only have one electric guitar...It would be a strat or a tele (or the GandL equivelant). I am a big fan of both. I just love the single coil clean and overdrive tones and they will both get down and dirty too...not les paul down and dirty...but still pretty mean (especially if you put a four way switch in a tele). You could always get a fat strat witha humbucker in the bridge too help with the distortion tones...or just put a stacked humbucker in a standard strat...or just leave them be. I also like the longer scale of the Fenders over the Gibbies...But I am working on a LP for my next electric.

Sorry for the rambling.

[mapletrees]

Why Me,

I'd agree with trivial...

Strat with a humbucker...Seymour Duncan makes stacked humbuckers that fit without modification to the guitar...


What about the Fender American Fat Strat Texas Special...

$944 in Musicians's Friend catalog...

two Texas Special single coil pickups (more ooomph than regular AmStrat pickups) and one Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates humbucker (splittable I presume with 5-way switching)...

would definitely do the sparkling clean to down and dirty variety you're looking for...

Using it in church?

Pearly Gates?

You can even get it in 'tempting' candy apple red...

if you're from Texas, named Adam, and have the hots for someone named Eve...

...perhaps someone's trying to talk to you...

personally, I can't stand whammy bars ...

[mapletrees]

LarryH...

there's definitely more out there than those 4...

but...

for the most part...

those 4 guitars account for most of what folks hear on recordings...

ok, if not those 4, then those 4 with replacement pickups for a particular player's needs and/or style

ok, if not that then maybe a 'small shop' swooped up and customized version/take on one of those 4

ok, if not that then something like a GibsonmeetsFender PRS creation

ok, if not that then for the metalheads and shredders something like a GibsonLesPaulCustommeetsStratwithORIGINALFloydRose andebonyfretboard USA made Jackson or similar Superstrat from some other company..

ok, if not that then maybe a radical looking and advanced technology Parker

ok, perhaps an Orville Rickenbacker pop pop poppin' out the jingly-jangly stuff

but anyways...

when it comes to suggesting a first electric guitar to someone...

arggghhhhh...ate all my turkey, veggies, pie.. and now it looks like they're not leaving?...

they're leaving...

I don't care how dangerous it is to drive at this time on a holiday...

I don't care if they're groggy after eating turkey...


they

are

leaving.

Buckle up and go, go, go...

See ya next year...


be back in a bit...

[mgracing]

whyme,

I modified my 50s classic Strat with a Duncan Lil 59 mini bucker in the bridge. It's now a very versatile guitar. One downside to that bucker/single coil combo is that the #2 position (bridge/middle) loses some of the trademark "quack" of a strat.

If you go the Strat route, here is another option for you, though based in a product line you are already looking at: The G&L S-500. This is basically a Strat with three interesting twists: hot, full, single-coil Magnetic-Field Pickups, Passive Bass and Treble Controls, and a "blower" switch.

The MFPickups have more output and a higher fidelity sound than the standard alnicos. With the G&L Passive Bass and Treble controls (no battery) you can get very close to a standard alnico sound for rhythm and then open up the bass for lead. MFPs are much closer to the standard Strat sound than the stacked 'buckers, though noisier. They aren't as noisey as standard Strat pickups, though.

The blower switch allows you to get all possible combinations of the pickups, one of which is fairly close to a Tele sound. This makes the guitar extremely flexible.

The G&Ls are priced very close to the Fender American series but offer Custom-shop quality and wood.

I had played humbucker-equipped Gibsons for years and finally wanted a Strat-type. For some reason (probably only emotional), I felt the stacked humbuckers not only didn't sound as much like a Strat as MFPs, but I felt the only reason to buy them would be to cling to the noise-free security of humbuckers. I let go any dived in. You see: emotional! On the other hand, the humbuckers are great for playing live in unpredictable situations.

Hope this helps!

Bob

P.S. Whatever you get, get a setup! It can really increase the playability of your guitar.

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Bob Womack ]

[510picker]

Thanks for all of the great info, keep it coming.

Bob: Thanks for the info on the G&L. I posted a question over at guitarsbyleo.com asking for a explaination of the different G&L models. I haven't made it over there yet to check out the replies. The Legacy, S-500 and the Commanche all have similar body style. Are the only differences in the type of pickups?

If I am going to get a strat style guitar it will be a G&L. I think you get a whole lot more for the money. You pay more for the Fender name.

Thanks again!

[mapletrees]

Why Me...

another plus (big plus for some ) for G&L is the choice of nut width and fretboard radius....

clueless as to why Fender doesn't offer some option on that...

LarryH...I'll get back to what I was getting at..

[mapletrees]

Why Me

have you been to G&L's website to find out the differences in their models? It spells them out...don't miss the options page...

it's glguitars.com but you apparently HAVE to type the www

www.glguitars.com

someone explain that to me please...

Bob: what is a current going street price on the plain S-500?...list is at about $1500 What about the the plain Legacy...list pushes $1300?...

I ask because at the time when I was giving lessons to folks the price differential between Fender and G&L was substantial...different category substantial...I had students who were going to plop 4 or $500 down on an Epi and I would convince them to get serious and get into the mid to low $600's for an American Fender (sometimes even high $500's on a sale)... there was only one G&L dealer anywhere near my area...no selection...musty basement...unfriendly owner...one of those places where you might spend 3 minutes and leave...and again prices weren't close to Fenders...high $800's ,9's ...actually pushing $1000... I don't think I ever even looked at list..no way I would get people to move up to that amount of money...


were this dealer's prices just way out of line?

...Fender has sinced jacked their prices steadily...and when the American Standards became the American Series it seems that basic strats and teles went up over $100...

Larry H...I'm getting there...

[mapletrees]

Larry Habenero...

Mrs. Renfro?!?!

who's got a good habenero sauce, salsa, whatever?

where's forum member i-doc? are you a doctor? what does it mean when nothing seems hot anymore? I'm up to putting habenero slices in my mouth like chewing tobacco...

ok, LarryH...getting back to those 4 guitars...it was in reference to some discussion about Epi's in another post...and I said something along the lines of - with reference to guitar purchasing - "don't try to get away with less than those, you can certainly spend more..."

to me (and this is just opinion...goes without saying) there's a big difference between acoustics and electrics...

you know a $200 or $300 Yamaha, or Washburn, or whatever acoustic is no Taylor...but it can in fact sound quite pleasant...it isn't like those $89 guitars...know what I mean...it isn't going to make you whince with an assault of unpleasant noise...it's not professional, but it's not trash either..


with electrics though...good grief...most of the stuff that sells in that 'couple hundred bucks' range is so bad that it ought to be illegal to market that stuff as a real instrument...the tones they produce are just not musical...and they tend to be so bad that they affect one's musical progress...you're trying to learn to solo but everytime you hold a note it sounds like a dying seal on the beach...so you don't hold the note...you develop a bad habit of trying to hit too many notes...or you're trying to learn how to hit little bits of chords and triads for fill and 2nd guitar parts... but they sound sick, squawky, barky, out of tune, flat instead of Fender ringy and bell-like...end result? you don't hit 'em, you avoid them, and you don't learn...you sort of get like someone with bad breath trying to have a conversation with someone who's maybe a bit too close...you can't be natural and/or assertive..

and intonation? good heavens...remember, most folks on an acoustic will stay down near the nut...on an electric they'll be all over the place...gotta have good intonation...but how about some frets that look 100 year old railroad tracks...not gonna help...how bout some saddles that after their 4th adjustment have screws all stripped out....actually falling out...ooooooooohh this is our free-floating saddle model...comes with slippery slipping tuners, too..


...ok, that'd be big government (the illegal thing)...don't want that...but anyways...boy, how was that for organization in one's writing? Sarah?

it seems (to me) a very quick and abrupt leap...it's either a professional electric or it's just not worth buying...the Mex Fenders being one of the notable exceptions....but I still wouldn't suggest them...they're fine and pleasant and whomp what 99% of us probably started on...but save save save...

ugh...I had 3 or 4 specific thoughts ("write things down Daddy...just write things down..") and I've completely lost them...

Ugh. Be back...

Why Me is doing the right thing...

[510picker]

Mapletrees......thanks for the help......I think.

[mapletrees]

I've been told it's habanero with an "a"...

Why Me...I'm running into trouble here making the slightest bit of sense because

A) it's difficult for me to make sense...

7) I'm half talking to Larry

iv) I'm half talking to you

and

II-W-ix-c) I'm half talking to Bob...

whoops, that makes for a total of 1 1/2

...but do take note of the organization...

it gets tough to communicate normally in this setting...

if three or four people were sitting around, the conversation would bounce back and forth quickly...

you want a versatile guitar...

someone says "hey, strat with humbucker" - and keep in mind, 'strat' to most people means AmFender Strat or any strat-like guitar costing more than a Fender...

someone else says "yeah, strat with humbucker"

LarryH says "Stumpy insists there's only 4 or 5 guitars worth buying"

I say "I didn't say that..."

LarryH says "did so"

I say "did not"

fight occurs (smile)...

Mrs. Trees shakes her head and says..."men."

back to topic...

I say "Pearly Gates Strat if you need it for church"

Mrs. Trees says "if the jokes aren't any good you've got to at least work on the delivery"

Bob says "what about G&L?...and in particular...the S-500"


blah blah blah...

happens so much more quickly than what happens here....

getting back to the LarryH conversation..I'm very used to trying to convince people not to spend money on a

kaching...$100 used Squier

then

kaching...$189 on a new Squier (geez, mustabeensumpin' wrong with that one...I'll get a shiny new one with vinyl bag...yeah...that one didn't have the vinyl bag...woulda stayed in good shape if it had had the vinyl bag...)

then

kaching...$189 on an Epi (geez, I'm just not a single-coil type of guy...I want that true Gibson tone)

then

kaching...$389 on a 'prettier' Epi (geez, I guess if you want quality, yajustgottaspendthebucks)

then

kaching...$godknowswhat on some import Ibanez or Jackson imitation Floyd Rose mid-life crisis sort of guitar...


then

kaching $309 on a MexFender...ok $409 kaching kaching because you had to buy a hardshell case separately to take care of this guitar...this is the one...this is IT...you do like the single-coil sound...I do...I do like green eggs and ham...and it has blown away everything you've heard so far...

by this time you can play somewhat and..

then

... you hear a real Fender through a big reverb-drenched Fender amp and you say...


oh.


the arithmetic proves nasty...


I'm not really waving the flag for Fender...it's just that (in my opinion) it's the least expensive 'real' guitar you can buy new...it seems the logical choice for many who are debating whether or not to spend $3 or $4 or $5 on something else...

now in Why Me's case...if there's already a committment(sp?) to spend $700 to a $1000 on an electric...Fender may or may not be the best choice...

if you're up to G&L range (Bob, exactly how close are they?), and want a G&L, get it!

if you're up to G&L range, but prefer the looks, sound, and feel of an American Strat...buy a Strat!

by the way, there's an awful lot of people out there who might be of the frame of mind...give me a Tele and a 12-pack and I can conquer the world...Tele's can be rock-solid clean and dirty...

are you up to used PRS CE range at a $1000? How close are you to new PRS CE range at that price?...if you play one and think it totally toasts Fender and G&L, maybe you save your pennies for another 3months, or 6 months, or whatever...


Kidcheesyriffs yells,,,you %&^*&$#$#@&%&^...get a American Hamer.

if I sent someone looking for a used AmHamer, we'd undoubtedly have the tale of Hamer Simpson....

[510picker]

This gets more interesting each time......what will be next?