Lowering action by shaving down nut?

[Monk of Funk]

I just replaced the nut on my acoustic, but haven't glued it yet. The intonation sounds dead on to me right now, but the action definitely seems a bit higher up than it was with my old nut. I shaved the nut down to the same height as the old one, but I think the grooves in the old nut were deeper and that's what makes the difference I think.

Will it make such a big difference to the intonation if I take the nut out, and shave some off the bottom, and then put it back in?

[bnjp]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

Will it make such a big difference to the intonation if I take the nut out, and shave some off the bottom, and then put it back in?

It depends on if the slots are deep enough to hold the strings. If they are then lowering the nut from the bottom would be fine. A pro would file the slots deeper to get optimal nut action.

[Monk of Funk]

It's a graphtec nut that came slotted. That's good to know. I discovered that the action right at the nut is way too high. I can't even barre at the first fret, and I'm an advanced player, it's definitely not a lack of technique, it's just crazy high right there. I could cope with the rest but prefer lower, but that first fret is unplayable.

[LouieAtienza]

I'd do a search in this forum on how to perform an action setup, just for the sake of not repeating a common topic... there was even a thread not too long ago about this. I'll post a link when I find it...

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nutaction.html

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

I just replaced the nut on my acoustic, but haven't glued it yet. The intonation sounds dead on to me right now, but the action definitely seems a bit higher up than it was with my old nut. I shaved the nut down to the same height as the old one, but I think the grooves in the old nut were deeper and that's what makes the difference I think.

Will it make such a big difference to the intonation if I take the nut out, and shave some off the bottom, and then put it back in?

In theory at least, lowering the action at the nut should improve intonation.
If it gets worse then perhaps try a vertical shim between nut and end of fretboard.

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

In theory at least, lowering the action at the nut should improve intonation.
If it gets worse then perhaps try a vertical shim between nut and end of fretboard.

That sounds like a good idea. So, lowering the nut brings the nut closer to the 12th fret, so you can jus pull it back a little if it goes off too much.

Now I think of it, I guess the nut height must take quite a large change to make much difference in intonation, since it's the hypotenuse that's the string length, and the nut height is really short relative the 12th fret length.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

That sounds like a good idea. So, lowering the nut brings the nut closer to the 12th fret, so you can jus pull it back a little if it goes off too much.

Now I think of it, I guess the nut height must take quite a large change to make much difference in intonation, since it's the hypotenuse that's the string length, and the nut height is really short relative the 12th fret length.

Nut slot height has quite a bit of affect on intonation at first few frets (the critical cowboy chords).

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nutaction.html

Thx, this was also helpful. I think it's probably at an ideal height right now. Gonna play it like that for a while, and then glue it in with half and half wood glue and water during my next restring if all goes well.

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Nut slot height has quite a bit of affect on intonation at first few frets (the critical cowboy chords).

Lol, that's fine by me, because the cowboy chords are not so critical to me.

I actually don't like the open chords and stay away from them as much as possible. The only one that really sees a lot of action from me (no pun intended) is the E/Em one.

It's always a little odd to me, because those are the most common shapes, and the ones everybody learns first, including me, but they are my least preferred ones.

I find the open strings reverberate too much and muddy things up.

I'd actually really like to try a zero fret guitar for that reason.

I can't quite figure out why zero fret isn't more popular, but I'd love to try one.

But thx, it's good to know. I'll keep an eye out for that for sure, because although I don't use the cowboy chords much, I still want everything playing at correct pitch.

[Sperry]

Factory string slots are nicer than I can make. Today I ran into the exact situation . . . on a Korean budget electric guitar I'm fixing for a friend. The new $1 nut from Asia was a little high, and I muddled the nice clean factory slots making them lower, rather than remove/file the nut.

What I need are some decent slot files ...

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

I just replaced the nut on my acoustic, but haven't glued it yet. The intonation sounds dead on to me right now, but the action definitely seems a bit higher up than it was with my old nut. I shaved the nut down to the same height as the old one, but I think the grooves in the old nut were deeper and that's what makes the difference I think.

Will it make such a big difference to the intonation if I take the nut out, and shave some off the bottom, and then put it back in?

It'll be hard to find a stock made nut that fits the profile of your guitar's first fret perfectly. This is why nuts are usually fitted bottom first, then slots are cut. This is true whether "pre-slotted" or just a blank.

When changing nuts, string spacing can be individualized for the guitar and player's needs.

You can cut a nut well with a 5 to 10 dollar needle file set. The trick to doing a good job is not in the tool as much as it is in the knowledge of what makes a good slot, what makes a bad slot, and the technique to pull it off.

If nut slots are not cut to their proper depths (too high), it can put lowest position notes out of tune - sharp.

You may be able to get close by taking material from the bottom of the nut, but the best for accuracy, expedience, and repeatability is to adjust nut slot depth from the top.

You can slightly shift a "pre-cut" nut slot towards one side or another to make small corrections or adjustments in string spacing.

I only ever put enough glue on a nut to tack it into place to keep it from falling out during string changes.

[JeffreyAK]

I spent quite a bit of time working on the nut action on my Strat a while back, admittedly it's brass but it was quite a learning curve even with the correct slot file. There's an art and technique involved that takes practice, and once you go too far down (as I did) you're done and it's time to replace the nut and start over.

If the bottom of your nut is flat, you can try sanding it down on that side, and that will get it closer, but if you want it perfect you'll probably have to either climb the learning curve with the correct slot files, or just hand the guitar over to a pro. That's what I ultimately did with my Strat, after I cut too far down and didn't want to start completely over from scratch. The cost was less than the cost of the slot files, though I'm glad I gave it a shot first since I learned a lot.

[srick]

Dear Monk - I'm chuckling as i went through the same process several weeks ago. In my case, I filed the slots (they didn't need much) I got that action so dang low that it took no effort to fret the strings... and there was no buzz. But I hated the way it felt!

So today, I got brave, gently tapped out the nut on my expensive guitar and applied Frank Ford's shim fix (a piece of computer mailing label cut to fit). And now it's perfect. It took perhaps five minutes. I guess if you never make a mistake, you'll never learn.

Good luck - adjusting action, cutting nuts and saddles are good projects for us amateurs!

Rick

[Janek Lubanski]

I've just had a go at cutting my nut slots. I don't have nut files but I've used feeler gauges. The nearest size to the individual string gauges and cut a few 'nicks' into the gauge with some scissors. Worked a treat. Could possibly go a little lower on some strings but leaving it for now to see if it really warrants more work. My guitar is a lot easier to play now.....and seems to play in tune better over the first 3-4 frets.