Amplification questions

[muchoarigato]

Hello fellow acoustic lovers, Tom here from Australia.

I have a bit of a long winded and multi-part question, and I would be considered as somewhat of an amateur with regard to this stuff so thanks for taking the time to read and I hope these aren’t silly questions. I’m very much appreciative for any advice or ideas people might have.

I’m currently running a Fishman Loudbox amp with a few standard pedals through the effects loop (tremolo, chorus and delay) and a Maton EM325C guitar, a setup which produces a great quality sound in live situations and has been a reliable setup for shows without drums or bass. I don’t use the line-out as I don’t like the sound of it, so we usually mic it up through the PA system at whatever venue we’re playing.

However, we’re about to start with bass and drums again in a very exciting rebirthing of my old band….and I would like to have some drive/distortion behind me as it suits our songs, as well as more power on stage as the Fishman just isn’t quite enough sometimes.

I also have a Fender Hotrod Deville 60 Watt all valve 4x10 combo (electric guitar amp with a good vintage sound and great clean tone – it’s a mid-range powerhouse, and a ballsy amp), which will probably be at gigs anyway with some songs on electric guitar. Has a great clean tone and footswitch for drive / more drive.

Question 1: Is my Fender amp capable of being (and safe to be) used for more power in clean songs and for drive in heavier songs?

Question 2: If so, is this best achieved with a) Humbucker pickup installed in sound hole of my guitars, or b) separate EQ or other effects pedals running through the Fender effects loop?

My main concerns are that I don't want to compromise on sound quality, and obviously I don't want to cook any of my gear.

Obviously I'm also keen to hear your suggestions on what pedals / pickups may be best suited to my application.

Thanks again for reading and I look forward to your suggestions.

Tom

[RockerDuck]

For yrs. back in the 70's, everybody used guitar amps and the PA for the acoustic guitars. My acoustic group actually used our guitar amps. It was low volume. The louder you play the farther away you need to be from your amp. Most just use a DI box to the PA for loud venues with a small amp for the acooustic so you can hear yourself. So, yes you can use that Fender HOT Rod, just control the volume and cut the bass and mid frequencies.

[Pen]

IMO if you can get the bass and drums to control their volume, you'll be fine.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by muchoarigato

However, we’re about to start with bass and drums again in a very exciting rebirthing of my old band….and I would like to have some drive/distortion behind me as it suits our songs, as well as more power on stage as the Fishman just isn’t quite enough sometimes. ...

I don't think I quite understand. Are you saying you want to produce distortion with your Maton acoustic guitar?

Question 1: Is my Fender amp capable of being (and safe to be) used for more power in clean songs and for drive in heavier songs?

The Fender is capable of safely amplifying your Maton for additional volume. However it will sound less acoustic than the Fishman which to my mind constitutes a degradation of sound quality.

Question 2: If so, is this best achieved with a) Humbucker pickup installed in sound hole of my guitars, or b) separate EQ or other effects pedals running through the Fender effects loop?

The Fender will probably sound better with a sound-hole pickup, especially if you actually want the Fender to clip (distort) the sound of your Maton but you should try it first with the Maton's existing pickup to see if you find that combination suitable. Whether you need additional effects or equalization controls beyond the Fender's passive controls is up to you and the tone you are trying to create.

I would experiment with using two pickups. I'd run the Maton's pickup into the Fishman and a sound-hole pickup into the Fender.

[tammuz7000]

look at the fulltone Plimsoul...a friend recommened it and he sounds great..live. I demoed them this week and wow...such sustain and distortion..I tried the plimsoul and the fulltone OCD and liked both...

I use a line6 M9 for live with a fender Concert amp...it sounds great clean and great with the overdrive...alot over here use the ibenez tube screamer with a mod for their distortion..

Im going with the Plimsoul after trying them out... It will give you all the sustain and distortion you ever need...and make you fender sound like a marshall at low volumes...

check them out on youtube...its fulltone Plimsoul..

[pieterh]

There's a popular duo in Sweden called Johnossi, a drummer and guitarist/singer. The guitarist tends to use Lag acoustic guitars on stage but with all sorts of effects, including a serious amount of distortion (and take it from me, the level from the monitors on stage is painful!). I can't remember which amp he was using (valve head and cab though) but somehow they managed to keep the feedback at bay.

There is a risk with distortion on an acoustic all the same - distortion is caused by high gain through a signal chain that can't handle the level without clipping. High gain raises the risk for ambient noise starting a feedback loop, so as mentioned earlier you'll need to experiment with levels, placement and notch filters (if you have them) to take out the danger-zone frequencies and so on.

I would suggest both amps with an A/B box for switching between them with a decent stomp box for the distortion, one with a noise suppression circuit.

But a tip - distortion box should be in series from the guitar (or A/B box) to the amp, not in the effects loop. The rule of thumb here is that processors (distortion, compression, limiting, eq etc) work on the whole signal whereas effects (delay, reverb, chorus etc) work by delaying the (already distorted and/or compressed) signal, modulating or otherwise changing the original and then blending back to the original. That's why some effects units have a balance function - they can be set to just deliver 100% effect (eg the echo without the original sound) which means the amp itself will need to have a balance control on the effects loop. Some loops on the other hand break the original signal path when the send and return jacks are used so the mix on the effects should be set to ca 50% (give or take, depending on what you want to achieve of course!).

[muchoarigato]

Been away for work a week so thanks for all the responses, essentially I think my questions have been answered.

Herb Hunter - See below for the sort of sound I'm looking for, but thanks for the advice and I think you're right, especially if you have a look at the video below and take a look at his setup(s)...

pieterh - Thanks for the detailed response, unfortuantely I lack the techincal knowledge to understand some of it though haha! I'll check out Johnossi. The Fishman has a built-in feedback suppressor and phase switch which can be used together to dial-out feedback which is very effective. It also has an XLR out which is completely post-mix and eq, which I'm going to try running through a volume pedal to the Fender to see what I can achieve, although ultimately I think a sound-hole pickup running seperately to the Fender without effects will suit me best. That said, I can probably also mess around with a seperate EQ and noise suppression pedals running solely for the Fender too see if that helps. I'll be using the standard footswitch for now, but may have to experiment with seperate distortion pedals also so thanks again for the advice.

For those who are interested this is, in a way, what I am going for: Just after 10:00 but especially at 11:28 you can hear the volume / drive increase, and it's this progression from normal volume to maximum volume with the distortion which I've always wanted to experiment with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B-x5bhLRkY

I love this solo and the way John plays, and I tend to draw on similar changes in intensity and volume for the majority of my songs.

There are various videos of his setup which are way too complicated for me to understand, but essentailly I'm going to do a bit of trial & error to see what I can come up with.

[Ken Donnell]

If you decide to go the humbucker pickup direction, I recommend you check out the Dean Markley ProMag Grand (black casing). It is simple, inexpensive, relatively hum free, and delivers a fatter sound than most of the single coil pickups I've tested. Hope this helps.

[muchoarigato]

Thanks Ken, will check it out!