Taylor Neck Bolt Holes

[jonfields45]

Check out the pictures in this thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=350374

Do they look like something Taylor would do in production???

Jon

[fazool]

I don't understand your question.

The linked thread only had one page but I saw some photographs of bolts.

Can you elaborate ?

[B. Howard]

The original holes yes......the part where someone moved them with a rasp or something, no. Notice the bolts and inserts line up with the original holes which are centered in the counterbores.

The label that is supposed to cover those to prevent unauthorized access to the neck joint is missing. This joint has been tampered with by someone other than an authorized repairman and makes me wonder how messed up it actually is as far as the shims and overall fit of the joint.

[fazool]

Now I see it.

Yeah, it looks pretty bad. Like Brian said, the second set of holes and there was obviously some clamping going on that made marks in the wood.

I can't imagine any scenario where anyone would drill out holes after they have the guitar.

So, as counter-intuitive as this sounds, I am going to suggest it came from the factory this way.

It looks like they had an alignment error drilling the holes. Most likely it was not clamped properly in the fixture and the original holes were drilled out of position.

Then, instead of throwing the neck away, they had to make a decision if it's worth reworking and if the rework can be 100% functional.

I bet they sent it over to a repair/rework department, where it was clamped down and the holes were redrilled (on a hand drill press).

Then they had to decide if the holes would function fine and then if it would be cosmetically acceptable.

If they decided the holes are 100% functional, the cosmetic is an easy decision: they will be covered with the factory label and a completely unseen hidden internal feature. Plus, if service is only restricted to authorized technicians, no one would ever see the rework anyway.

Personally, I would complain and ask for a replacement neck without the reworked holes - I think it is pretty crappy, but it might be completely functional and unseen.

[redir]

IT definitely looks like some one messed with that for some reason or another. None the less it won't cause a problem.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by redir

IT definitely looks like some one messed with that for some reason or another. None the less it won't cause a problem.

Yeah redir is right.....as ugly as that loioks its just 100% totally fine structurally.

Don't worry about it - there is nothing wrong with your guitar.

The clamping force is axial, by the bolts. The holes are purely clearance holes. Nothing is held in by the side of the holes. The clearance holes could by .001" bigger than the bolt or .010" bigger or .100" bigger - it doesn't matter. They could be square or triangular. It looks odd to us because we like nice symmetrical even construction, but its totally non-functional.

[redir]

Originally Posted by fazool

Yeah redir is right.....as ugly as that loioks its just 100% totally fine structurally.

Don't worry about it - there is nothing wrong with your guitar.

The clamping force is axial, by the bolts. The holes are purely clearance holes. Nothing is held in by the side of the holes. The clearance holes could by .001" bigger than the bolt or .010" bigger or .100" bigger - it doesn't matter. They could be square or triangular. It looks odd to us because we like nice symmetrical even construction, but its totally non-functional.

I make the holes in my guitars a bit bigger as a fudge factor just in case. A little wiggle room can come in handy.

[jonfields45]

I took the Taylor factory tour last week and in the visitor center they had several cut-up guitar bodies to exhibit various aspects of their construction. I noticed all the cut-up guitars had similarly hand enlarged neck bolt holes. Looking at the aluminum dowel which is in the NT neck heel prior to it being glued on the neck blank, it seems to me the threaded holes that accept the main neck bolts might be hard to align perfectly. Jon

[jonfields45]

Here are the neck heels prior to being glued onto the neck blank. Jon

[redir]

Cool cool!

[jonfields45]

Or maybe since the bolt holes are drilled very early in the body assembly and used for fixturing they are not perfectly aligned with the NT neck rout performed after the body is finished. Jon

[arie]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Check out the pictures in this thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=350374

Do they look like something Taylor would do in production???

Jon

about the holes? probably not intentionally.
about the bolts? (zinc dichromate grade 5 bolts and cad plated washers) -i doubt it. just not necessary for a guitar, and a serious waste of money for a high volume mfg. i also doubt they would mix shcs's with hex bolts either.
looks like home depot.

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Check out the pictures in this thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=350374

Do they look like something Taylor would do in production???

Jon

Hey Jon, I'm the OP of the thread you posted. I can assure you that the Taylor label was covering both bolt holes prior to my neck removal. In fact, my Taylor GA7e was purchased directly from the Taylor factory in El Cajon, SD, and not from a dealer - so this fact should provide some authenticity of any build work performed on this specific guitar. I don't have a picture of the Taylor label on the neck block with me to post right now, but I know I have one somewhere that I can dig up.

What I can tell you is that I've built an instrument (search "Jackie & Joe Mahogany Tenor Uke" here on AGF) with a bolt on neck to really good success. After the difficult task to fit and align the neck to the body, I'll tell you that it's incredibly challenging to drill the hole in the neck block exactly in the right spot the first time. In addition, with the Taylor design of shims to readjust the neck angle, that would move the bolt hole with each shim change.

I can't say for sure that the shape of the hole drilled in my pictures are by Taylor design. I, too, was not happy to see the clamp footprint or the undressed bolts. But, in the end, I can assure you there are no structural impacts of the shape of the bolt hole as the shims really define the placement of the neck, the bolts just provide the clamping force.

Hope this info helps. Thanks for viewing my thread nonetheless.

[darefugee]

Not a Taylor, but I have a Mossman with similar bolts holding the neck on. When I talked to my luthier about a neck reset, he explained that he'd likely have to enlarge the holes a little bit to make room for the change in angle the bolts would take thru the neck block as a result of the neck's angle change. He said if the holes are not enlarged, the bolts might press on the sides of the holes leading to eventual if not immediate damage to the neck block by splitting it along the pressure seam. Makes sense to me.

I do expect though, that the hole enlargement will be cleaner than what's pictured here...

[redir]

I make the head block and the heal block at the same time from the same laminated pieces. When I laminate the heal it's got an extra couple inches for the head block. I then rout off the thickness of the top at the body joint and drill the bolt holes. Then I just saw off the head block from the neck assembly and Voila no guessing where the holes are supposed to go. Of course in practice the tend to need to be slightly over sized.

It's kind of hard to explain but I developed this idea from building classical guitars. It's sort of like building a traditional Spanish neck joint on a classical guitar but instead of cutting slots into the neck block to let the sides in you just saw it right off.

Also I use furniture bolts and I like the way they look. I don't hide the bolts with a label.