[Theory] Do notes in I-IV-V all come from the scale?

[amyFB]

this link is for a free handbook that has more theory jammed into one space than i have ever seen.

it's not just for jazz players. anyone can take even one thing from here and increase their knowledge.

i love this booklet and refer to it constantly.

the scale syllabus is the page with scale references and examples. it changed my life.

http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...re_Code=JAJAZZ

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by amyFB

this link is for a free handbook that has more theory jammed into one space than i have ever seen.

it's not just for jazz players. anyone can take even one thing from here and increase their knowledge.

i love this booklet and refer to it constantly.

the scale syllabus is the page with scale references and examples. it changed my life.

http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...re_Code=JAJAZZ

Checked out the handbook and it is sort of a mess and disorganized. Goes into detail on some topics. Usefulness I guess depends on what instrument you are playing, where you are and where you want to be.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Checked out the handbook and it is sort of a mess and disorganized. Goes into detail on some topics. Usefulness I guess depends on what instrument you are playing, where you are and where you want to be.

The amount of information condensed into this booklet is daunting, for sure.

The discussions about chords and scales and notes therein is what triggered my suggestion to specifically look at the page called "scale syllabus".

It is geared to any instrument. and while it is focused to the jazz musician, the theory is applicable to any musician of western music.

yours in tune!

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by johnd

I have one. But it's pretty dry, hence having a tutor and interacting with you fine folks.

I don't recall any book explaining WHY the typical chords are I ii iii IV V vi dim-VII, certainly not as clearly as this thread as revealed!

I guess it's like asking why the alphabet is in alphabetical order...

IOW, if you harmonize the major scale in 3rds (every alternate step), those are the chord types you get. That's why. The difference in chord types results from the different distances between chord tones. Your messing around on piano should tell you that - although, to be fair, the white notes of the piano obscure that, because they all look the same distance apart. You need to count the black notes too, to measure all the half-steps.
Try this chart, which shows the half-steps spaced equally (like the guitar fretboard does):

 Half-steps: |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | 
Major scale: C     D     E  F     G     A     B  C     D     E  F 
CHORDS:
  I = C      C  .  .  .  E  .  .  G
 ii = Dm           D  .  .  F  .  .  .  A
iii = Em                 E  .  .  G  .  .  .  B
 IV = F                     F  .  .  .  A  .  .  C
  V = G                           G  .  .  .  B  .  .  D
 vi = Am                                A  .  .  C  .  .  .  E
vii = Bdim                                    B  .  .  D  .  .  F

Notice that it's the distance from root to 3rd that defines major or minor chords (4 half-steps = major 3rd, 3 half-steps = minor 3rd), while the dim chord is defined by its 5th: 6 half-steps, a "diminished 5th" in comparison with the 7-half-step "perfect 5ths" of the other chords.
"3rd" = 3rd note of the scale, if chord root is counted as "1st".
"5th" = 5th note of the scale, if chord root is counted as "1st".
...

Of course you could ask why the major scale is the way it is...! (that opens a whole can of worms...)

[JonPR]

BTW, there's a whole slew of music theory (aimed at guitarists), written by probably the best theory guru online (that I've yet found), here:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho....php?t=1371119

[mot]

Nice Resources. Thanks,

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by JonPR

BTW, there's a whole slew of music theory (aimed at guitarists), written by probably the best theory guru online (that I've yet found), here:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho....php?t=1371119

Yep, seen that before and it is pretty well organized. Lacking is the diagrams and pictures, index, and easy page flipping you get in a good theory book. There are other good basic music theory books (general and guitar oriented) out there. Get more than one. Advice to beginners on music theory: avoid any book with the word "Jazz" in the title.

[creamburmese]

Just went to guitar camp and took a class with Ray Chesna on music theory as applied to guitar. Made more sense than any of the (3) books I've been working through and the 4 I have waiting... light bulb moments and all that. If you get a chance check out his book "string theory"....

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by johnd

…I wondered if this is coincidence or is some sort of fundamental theoretical underpinning?

Hi johnd...

I suspect the music came first and the theory was deduced and then organized to explain it. We have no way to know who first invented and played what we call a major scale.

Many people groups have scales which differ from western music. Some are purely pentatonic and some have subdivided pitches into more subdivisions than half or whole steps.

What we call Western Music is based on a using a major scale which ascending is defined:
Root-whole step-whole step-half step-whole step-whole step-whole step-half (root)

When triads are played beginning with the root-third-fifth and ascending in order, it produces the familiar I ii iii IV V vi vii° I patterns.

I actually drag a keyboard into guitar lessons about once a year and we review this in key of C and discuss it being applicable to all other major scales/keys.

I even built this one minute mini-video for students to review…



Good to know, and better when applied…

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

...any book with the word "Jazz" in the title.

hey, I resemble that remark!

[JonPR]

[QUOTE=rick-slo;4074399]Yep, seen that before and it is pretty well organized. Lacking is the diagrams and pictures, index, and easy page flipping you get in a good theory book.[QUOTE=rick-slo;4074399]As we can say about net forums in general, I guess...

Originally Posted by rick-slo

There are other good basic music theory books (general and guitar oriented) out there. Get more than one.

Yes!

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Advice to beginners on music theory: avoid any book with the word "Jazz" in the title.

I might extend that advice beyond beginners too...

Or maybe it's best to treat them like the notorious "avoid notes" : it doesn't mean "never play them" - it means "beware: handle with care"...

[ljguitar]

Hi all...

My advice to students who say they want to learn theory is I recommend they enroll in the basic Music theory class at our community college, which will be cheaper and quicker in the long run than me tailoring theory to them and trying to adapt it to guitar.

Most theory is best visualized on keyboards, and a one semester course will cost far less dollars than a semester of guitar lessons. And one would likely learn far more about theory. And by the end of a semester, a person will know if they really want to know theory, or just bits and pieces of it.

Adapting it to guitar may take a bit-o-work - learning the names of the notes on the neck for instance.

I know most players only plan to apply it to guitar, but having come to guitar from keyboards, and brass instruments, and choral work, the piano/keyboard approach is comprehensive and will pay a lifetime of dividends.

I believe one just understands how music is assembled and how it works/flows so much better from keyboard perspective. And interestingly, my best guitar students all have a piano background (whether they hated lessons or not).

[JonPR]

^ Good advice!

[jeanray1113]

For the guitar player just beginning to learn theory, I highly recommend Bruce Emery's "Music Theory for the Skeptical Guitarist" books. He has a whole series of books, but there are two devoted specifically to theory as applied to the guitar. He manages to makes it very accessible, interesting, and even has a sense of humor. I have learned much from these books. www.skepticalguitarist.com

[DaveKell]

Originally Posted by amyFB

this link is for a free handbook that has more theory jammed into one space than i have ever seen.

it's not just for jazz players. anyone can take even one thing from here and increase their knowledge.

i love this booklet and refer to it constantly.

the scale syllabus is the page with scale references and examples. it changed my life.

http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...re_Code=JAJAZZ

That book is by Jamey Aebersold. I stopped at his house once a month for two years on my part time job as a Culligan man while attending Indiana University. His home studio back then (nearly 35 years ago) was incredible. I remember distinctly reading letters taped to the wall from nearly every major jazz name poking fun at him for presuming to be able to teach jazz. The concerts from his students were always a free delight to behold.