How do you play amplified? (Regardless of pickup)

[jseth]

Over the past 4 decades, I have played a lot of different pickup systems in my acoustic guitars... as a "professional", being able to get a good tone from my acoustic guitar is paramount, especially for solo guitar/voice gigs...

What I have found is that EVERY different pickup requires slightly different techniques to draw the sound from it that I'm wanting to hear... you just have to sit down and figure each one out along the way...

One thing that is consistent in that regard is the overall volume. When amplified, it is easy to have the volume turned up so high that your attack strength HAS to be very, very light... now, that may work for some, but I prefer to be able to actually HIT the thing when I want/need to have a stronger feel to the sound. Finding the balance of the volume is critical to good sound and performance.

I find that my overall attack strength is lightened up considerably when playing amplified versus "unplugged"... but I still need to find that volume setting that gives me as much dynamic range as possible.

If you have a UST pickup, playing with a lighter attack can prevent that horrid "quacking" sound from being predominant... the harder you hit the strings on a UST-equipped guitar, the more prevalent the "quack".

My current signal chain is: Mark Angus 6 or 12 string acoustics w/ Anthem SL pickups>Bose T1 Tone Generator/Mixer>Bose L1 Model II w/ one B1 (sub) cabinet... vocal mic is Shure Beta 58A.

[David Rock]

I am new to playing out and have just recently started "getting paid" for it. I have liked it so far, but I feel quite deeply about the idea of how much there is to learn. My "anti suck device" apparently worked as the manager asked me to come back as a regular.

If I have anything to add..Put this in the for what it is worth column...I play ambiance/background music - compositions for solo guitar. Not a voice to be heard (which of course could substitute for the anti suck device). People seem to like it, but amplified for me is tough!

I like the tone of my guitar (Taylor NS72CE), good...I try to replicate it (not always easy). I get very good reviews from guitar geeks.

Fingers/hand position seems to be terribly important including (don't laugh) the shape of each right hand fingernail is different...My fingers are not all straight (or the same length) and I find the shape affects the tone tremendously. This sounds kind of weird when I actually see it written down.

A couple of decades ago I ask my first teacher to play something. He did and I could "barely" hear it. When I commented on this he said simply, "If I want to be heard, I plug in." There may be some wisdom in that...The acoustic guitar has some severe limitations and that is what this thread is about, but...

There might be something to the concept of low action, not aggressive, get it the way you want it BEFORE you plug in...

Just sayin'

I like this thread. It is very helpful. I have a lot to learn.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by David Rock

The acoustic guitar has some severe limitations and that is what this thread is about, but...



There might be something to the concept of low action, not aggressive, get it the way you want it BEFORE you plug in...



Just sayin'



I like this thread. It is very helpful. I have a lot to learn.

Thanks for contributing! There have been some good responses so far. In trying to find some common themes, I can't. It seems that everyone has to find their own way.

For instance, I probably adjust my playing, when amplified, more than I realize. As a folk music leader, I play equal amounts of acoustic music and amplified acoustic music. A comment above about volume struck a chord with me (pun intended). I also like to keep the volume low enough that I can *try* to play the guitar the same way as I do un-amplified. I've always used dynamics in my voice and the guitar to draw people in.

Of course, if my job was to entertain the happy hour crowd, I might have a different perspective. I might be tempted to treat the acoustic more like an electric guitar.

And, these playing styles dictate which equipment may perform well for you. One of the reasons I play the Trance system in my Martin is because Jackson Browne, Paul Simon, and Neil Young play it in their Gibsons and Martins. It's not because I idolize Jackson Browne, Paul Simon and Neil Young (well maybe a little), but because my playing styles is very similar to theirs, and their rigs sounds amazingly good. It's probably a good to take cues from artists you identify with. They have more resources to experiment and find what works. There's no shame in taking the easy road and copying their approach.

P.s. You're fingernail thing is not weird. I do it too. Then again, maybe we're both weird?


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[ricdoug]

A piece of double sided foam tape does wonders to tame shrillness between piezoelectric pickups and the back of the bridge/soundboard. Ric

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

As for myself, I employ an Anti-Suck Filter between the guitar and amplifier.....in this way, all of the "sucky" notes are filtered out of the signal.

Of course, this results in significant stretches where the amplifier receives no signal from the guitar....

LOL😆

That's funny!

[Bajoquintoguy]

I play amplified just for leisure, but I play LOUD. Loud enough to induce feedback when I want it (by controlling distance between the guitar and amp). it's how I have fun!

Nothing quite like a <mag pickup equipped> 12 string fender tuned to open D at full song through the tube channel of a vox aga 150!

You could say I'd be better off playing a solid body electric, but something about acoustics just draw me to them and I don't know what it is, but I enjoy it...

[LSemmens]

Just as badly as I do un-amplified.

[Revy]

Maybe this is off track but I think it's note worthy.

I think singing and playing and just playing are two different things. When you are a singer/player, the most important thing is the words. People seem to forget that and over power the lyrics with music. Always best for me if the music is even lower volume to make sure your voice is well heard.

I live 20 minutes from the Surf Ballroom. Heard many historic bands play there and about 80% of them do one thing wrong. They over power the small venue and it sounds like mush! It's like the sound people don't even realize what they are hearing, just turn it up!

If you play amplified or unamplified I don't really see any reason to change the way you play. Your style can change dynamics and should be used for that if needed during a song. Doc Watson, Flatt & Scruggs, Doyle Dykes, Tom Emmanuel, they all bang the hell out of it! Almost always amplified, if the guitar is too loud, turn it down. It's one thing if your playing acoustically to a couple people in a living room and are too loud, then you have no where to go but lighten your playing. I don't think this discussion has anything to do with a scenario like that. Like the Bible says, "Make a Joyful Noise!"

Not all mine are joyful but I try!

[lkingston]

I was a pro musician until I got out of college and have been a sound guy for the past 30 years. Unfortunately, I seem to have damaged my ears somewhat in that time. My right ear has some damage but can still hear musically but my left ear sounds kind of like a crappy AM radio with a busted speaker. Both ears ring loudly. Worse then that I have something called hyperacousis in my left ear. This means that loud songs distort and are painful.

Anyway, this has impacted my life in that I am switching from sound engineering back to being a musician. I have also switched from piano and other keyboards to fingerstyle acoustic guitar. The piano tweaks my ear too much. Fortunately acoustic guitar still sounds good. I also play a jazzbox with a floating neck pickup.

It would be an understatement to say that I am really into sound. My hearing limitations make good sound all the more important. Any overbearing frequencies are painful.

My current recipe for a great guitar sound is an Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500 MCE with a blend of the magnetic and bridge pickups going into a Boss VE-8 with the resonance effect turned up about a third of the way. I have a nice EQ dialed in and saved as a preset with a touch of high pass filtering and a bit of a scoop in the 200Hz range.

I also use the phantom power on the VE-8 to power my Shure Beta 87 mic along with a a touch of EQ.

I haven't used the harmonizer or looper functions aside from playing around with them at home.

I work with a girl singer who is really talented and, like me, has a vocal range about a step lower than whatever the original key is. We trade off melodies and harmonies. I have experimented with different mics with her and recently I have started using a Samson Concert 88 two mic wireless set in which I have changed out the Q6 capsules with higher end Q7 ones. The vocal sound from these is ever so slightly crisper than the Shure Beta 58 we were using before and sounds very much like my Shure Beta 87.

Amp wise I have several really nice sounding options. These include a Bose L1, a carvin S600B, a Henriksen Bud, and a pair of Roland Street Cube Ex amps in which I've replaced the speakers with Jensen Mod 8-4 ones. The stock speakers on the Street Cube EX sounded kind of tinny and lacking in low end, but with the Jensens, the sound is very good (though only for small to mid-sized rooms). For larger rooms I need the Carvin or Bose systems. For band situations where I'm not doing sound, the Henriksen Bud is fantastic!



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[ricdoug]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

As for myself, I employ an Anti-Suck Filter between the guitar and amplifier.....in this way, all of the "sucky" notes are filtered out of the signal.

Of course, this results in significant stretches where the amplifier receives no signal from the guitar....

[roylor4]

Eastman E6OM > JJB 330 > Behringer ADI21 > Roland Street Cube EX in duo

Same chain for my Boxcar and an Boss a/b switch to change instruments.

Solo, I use the 2nd channel straight into the Cube - it is far hotter than the channel used for duos and needs no preamp.

We have a nice little PA - A Samson 308i, but almost always use the cube due to portability and ease of use.

[Soles]

I really appreciate this topic Dave. Very insightful comment from you, "the truth is that my tone comes from my hands and my setup."

I too think the basic sound comes from my hand, or how I play the instrument. Second comes the equipment I play through. I will play slightly differently depending the pick-up, short or long-scale neck, strumming or fingerpicking. All that factors into how I play a particular guitar. Then one always have to work with the sound reinforcement equipment one has to try to sound the best at any particular performance.

Currently I have one guitar with K&K mini, another with a Baggs Element (came installed in the Gibson). I don't particularly like either PickUp but I work with them to get the best sound I can. I run them through a Radial PZ-Deluxe and a BodyRez, without which the tone is very harsh from either guitar.

Unlike you, however, I play light strings (12) and very close action and I play fairly light handed, even when strumming. The Element will quack when played even moderately aggressively but I can get good tone from it when playing lightly (& turning up the volume). The K&K doesn't really "quack" but always sounds like somewhat muffled like the frequency range of the pickup is limited on the high end. Could just be my ears, but I boost the treble on the K&K and can strum as hard as I need to for a song that needs that kind of playing.

I find that by adjusting my right hand technique I can usually improve on any "bad" sounds I'm making at the moment. So, that's what I think of when you said, "tone comes from my hands"

thanks

[Stratcat77]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Of course, if my job was to entertain the happy hour crowd, I might have a different perspective. I might be tempted to treat the acoustic more like an electric guitar.

Interesting thread! My current setup is a Taylor with the ES1 system. Most on this forum seem to think its a horrible sounding system. I actually really like my sound. I don't know if I just like the sound of the ES1 or if I've managed to get a good sound out of it because of my technique? But perhaps it's that I'm a bit of an oddball!?? I think the above quote may apply to me! And I do wonder if I'm in the minority here?

My current signal chain is: Taylor 314ce with ES1 --> LR Baggs Venue --> Ditto 2 looper --> Allen & Heath ZED10fx --> pair of Mackie SRM450v2. I use very heavy Dunlop Gator 2.0mm picks. I've found I have much more control over dynamics and tone with a heavy pick. Vocal mic is Shure Beta 58A goes through a TC Helicon H1 for harmonies.

I just bought a 426ce Blackwood Limited - can't wait to try it out. I have an 814ce that stays at home. I'm in the "I buy them to play them" camp, but just won't take that one out to a crowded bar. It gets plenty of play time at home.

I play a lot of happy hour type gigs. I sing and play. My goal is to entertain. While I do my share of typical "acoustic" songs (James Taylor, Jim Croce, etc), and have really come to love that kind of music after being more of a rocker for most of my life, I wouldn't consider myself a great fingerpicker. Much of what I do is rock music that I attempt to translate to acoustic (I played electric guitar in rock bands for 30 years). I like to use a lot of heavy muted aggressive strumming to get a good percussive groove going on. One of my goals is to play songs people aren't expecting to hear done on an acoustic. For example, I do I Wish by Stevie Wonder. Certainly not an "acoustic" song. But it goes over great. I would say I am guilty of playing the acoustic like an electric on a lot of what I do. For me, it's fun and challenging trying to pull off stuff that isn't what you typically hear a guy sitting on a stool with his acoustic doing. Some examples are Cold as Ice and Feels Like the First Time by Foreigner, Hungry Like the Wolf by Duran Duran, I Saw the Light by Rundgren or Hold the Line by Toto. Heck, I even do Love Will Keep Us Together by Captain and Tennille!! It goes over great!

Does that now get me officially kicked off the forum?

[ahorsewithnonam]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

As for myself, I employ an Anti-Suck Filter between the guitar and amplifier.....in this way, all of the "sucky" notes are filtered out of the signal.

Of course, this results in significant stretches where the amplifier receives no signal from the guitar....

I ordered one from Sweetwater. I was so excited to try it. Got her plugged in, turned on the amp and started playing. In less than 10 seconds, it started to work! Yeah....a big guy walked up, unplugged my guitar, took it from me, smashed it to pieces, handed it back to me. What an awesome product!

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam

I ordered one from Sweetwater. I was so excited to try it. Got her plugged in, turned on the amp and started playing. In less than 10 seconds, it started to work! Yeah....a big guy walked up, unplugged my guitar, took it from me, smashed it to pieces, handed it back to me. What an awesome product!

Oh no! I better cancel my ASF amazon order!!!!


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