Any revoluntionary pickups these days?

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

Can't wait to hear your review! I usually run my Amulet M Phantom into an Ohuhu Phantom Power supply, out to a Radial PZ Deluxe, and into my Bose... but I really only use the Radial for it's boost switch & so I can have the ability to reverse phase (not always necessary). I've been bumping the bass to 2:00ish sometimes.



At other venues, I've also run direct into the Bose T1 tonematch with equally great results & at a few big gigs, I fed my guitar's XLR TRS cable to the FOH snake. Same great sound. It really is handy.

Maury, just got the Trance Amulet MVT Plus replacement system in. It is superb! The signal is so much hotter and cleaner. I let the lenses cure 24 hours each with the clamps. It sounds terrific with a tiny mid cut.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Gorquin]

This youtube video of the Barbera pickup is very interesting.

According to the vid, the Left spk is a U87 mic and the Right spk is the Barbera pickup.

Give it a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KemYXkpDeMo

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Maury, just got the Trance Amulet MVT Plus replacement system in. It is superb! The signal is so much hotter and cleaner. I let the lenses cure 24 hours each with the clamps. It sounds terrific with a tiny mid cut.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Awesome! So glad to hear that.

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by Gorquin

This youtube video of the Barbera pickup is very interesting.

According to the vid, the Left spk is a U87 mic and the Right spk is the Barbera pickup.

Give it a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KemYXkpDeMo

The Barbera is a great pickup! I've played several guitars with them installed and thought they all sounded great. I've got one being installed in a custom build I have on order.

I also think the Australian makers, Maton and Cole Clark, are doing some cool things with their built-in pickup systems. Maybe not revolutionary, but the improvements they've been making are so substantial you could call it an evolution.

The Cole Clark uses a 3-way system of an undersaddle pickup (with individual elements for each string) for the lows, a soundboard transducer for the mids, and an internal mic for the highs.

A few years back, Maton took their AP Mic system (which already sounded great) and made it even better:

http://maton.com.au/product/ap5pro-pickup

The acoustic tone of the Matons may be an acquired taste. It doesn't sound like a Martin or Taylor, they've got their own unique sonic signature. It's not a bad thing, just different. You forget about that stuff when you plug it in and get a great sound without having to mess with anything. I tried to resist getting a Maton for years, but am really glad I finally gave in as it is definitely my go-to guitar for any acoustic live gigs.

[Vancebo]

Nice demo Spruce top. You will get it there. It's a good start.

I have recently had installed in 2 separate GS minis a Dazzo #70 and a Trance Amulet MVT. I have yet to do a review but these two yielded similar results. Sonically, I couldn't choose a favorite because they were the same but different if that makes sense. I chose to keep the Dazzo equipped GS mini because all of my acoustics have the Dazzo and it keeps things simple.

A very slightly used Amulet MVT will be on the classifieds soon. It not a knock on the system, it just didn't give me anything different than the Dazzo did. I will do a review sometime soon.

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

I don't think we'll see too many new advancements but once every ten years or so and they'll be minor. The methods for detecting acoustic resonance have remained the same (mags, piezo-based USTs & SBTs, microphones) and we're past the point of anything major developing. As is the case with most technology, the "breakthroughs" will be minor advances to existing ideas that will make a big difference to players.

The Trance is just the FRAP, updated & improved. The Barbera Soloist is the LB6, again, updated. K&K Mini is the Barcus Berry Hot Spot. The Anthem is an advancement of a common UST/condensor mic dual source system and the Lyric is just the logical extension of internal mic technology. Heck, the ES2 is probably paying royalties to the Takamine palathetic pickup. The best advancements are improvements to the same ol' same ol'. I'm sure we'll see something new in a few years, but it'll be familiar as well.

Interesting observation. I happen to have a Baggs Hexaphonic (i.e. "LB6") in one guitar, and a Barbera transducer in another (both nylon strings). Now that you call my attention to it, they are both quite similar to each other in sound, tone, output and behavior.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

Interesting observation. I happen to have a Baggs Hexaphonic (i.e. "LB6") in one guitar, and a Barbera transducer in another (both nylon strings). Now that you call my attention to it, they are both quite similar to each other in sound, tone, output and behavior.

The Hex & LB6 are different pickups, but they have similar characteristics and many hex players (like Doyle Dykes) switched to the LB6 after the hex went out of production. The LB6, like the Barbera, is six piezo sensors encased in a saddle. Despite its age, the LB6 produces a tone to rival most undersaddle piezos and I haven't heard the Barbera but if it improved upon the LB6, it's sure to be an impressive pickup.

[Paultergeist]

Thanks Erik. Maybe I have the "Hex," as I have six little individual saddle pieces in that guitar.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

Thanks Erik. Maybe I have the "Hex," as I have six little individual saddle pieces in that guitar.

Yep, that's the Hex. Much hotter output than the LB6. Baggs doesn't make it any more. I have one in my classical.

As far as I know, the Hex doesn't have any mini-saddles wired out of phase. That would make it quite different from the Soloist. The Hex is also fairly quacky, in a steel-string with strumming. (That experiment didn't last long.)

The Hex has a lot of good qualities - strong output, even string volume balance, good string separation, good feedback rejection, blends well with a mic and makes a good "platform" pickup for modeling (because its so string oriented, I presume). I suspect that it isn't as ideal as the Soloist, however, if only because of the quack factor.

[Uncle Pauhana]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Here's my first attempt with mic'ing and using the ToneDexter with my Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono-equipped Martin HD-28. The ToneDexter WaveMap and recording isn't as good as I know I can get BUT it represents one of the few demos, anywhere, of an acoustic guitar pickup system being subjected to moderately aggressive play using a flatpick, which is to me the test of a good pickup system's headroom and tone. More and better demos to come ...

2014 Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M-VT and Shure SM81 into ToneDexter. Particulars: Strings are recommended Martin LifeSpan SP Medium Gage Phosphor Bronze; Pick is Charmed Life Brown (Vespel) .75 mm; Audio interface PreSonus Studio 192 recording at 48/24, try the SoundCloud Download button on the upper-right of soundfile panel for better recording:

Great work! It's demos like this one that have me telling people about the ToneDexter without even having played through one yet, haha!

😁

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Still loving this demo. I'm looking forward to hearing the ES2/ToneDexter combo samples.

Gary & All,

I just made a recording of a ToneDexter Wave Map that was generated by my 2015 Taylor 618e Expression System 2 and a Shure SM81 Small Condenser Microphone. The mic placement was about 12-inches out from the guitar's neck-body joint with the mic's capsule pointed toward my picking hand. All EQ was FLAT for both the WaveMap generation and the subsequent recording and NO EFFECTS were used. The recording was made with the ToneDexter's CHARACTER knob fully clockwise for the widest mic image. The recording was made at 48/24 Wave format.

The Taylor has fresh Elixir Nanoweb Medium-Guage Phosphor Bronze Strings installed and is played with a BlueChip TD35 Flatpick. At the end of the recording, I play a D-chord a couple of times to try to demonstrate the wah-wah effect of forearm positioning on the Taylor's top. The wah-wah effect is resident on all Taylor's, from the Mini to the Orchestra models, that have the relief rout which was introduced, I believe, around 2003. All brands of guitars have this effect somewhat but I've noticed newer Taylors have it especially strongly and I attribute it to the relief rout that really enlivens the top's vibrational range. All newer Taylors would benefit, IMHO, from installation of a stick-on armrest such as offered by John Pearse.

The recording is a conflated version of the guitar parts of Neil Young's "Old Man" and is designed to demonstrate the various tonal ranges as rendered by the Taylor ES2/Shure SM81 ToneDexter WaveMap. I'm positive that even better WaveMaps can be generated with more experimentation of mic placement when generating ToneDexter WaveMaps with our guitars! Please know that I have carpal-tunnel in both hands and it can result in any slight misfretting you may hear in the recording.



Below, is the Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono and Shure SM81 ToneDexter recording I made a couple of weeks ago, which was made with the Shure SM-81 in the same position as the Taylor but with the Shure's capsule pointed at the neck/body joint. Relative differences in the volume of the Taylor and Martin recordings are because of the recording process and not because one guitar and pickup combination is inherently louder than the other.



Next up for Dexterization will be my RainSong WS1000 with its Fishman Matrix UST/Prefix Plus Preamp and Martin GPC-18E with Aura VT Enhance.

Rather than just the ToneDexterized guitar recordings, in the future I'm thinking I should provide recordings of all three phases of ToneDexter training for each guitar: Raw Pickup, Microphone, and generated ToneDexter WaveMap.

[guitaniac]

Hi Ken,

I did see that you posted the Taylor ES2/ToneDexter sample in the ToneDexter (continued) thread two days ago. I've been reluctant to comment because I've seen that you are really high on that particular combo and have been somewhat disappointed with the Trance Amulet/ToneDexter results (too bassy, for your taste). For my own taste, howver, the ES2/ToneDexter combo just doesn't appeal to me as strongly as the Trance Amulet/ToneDexter combo does. And of course, there are so many variables that its hard to be sure exactly why the later combo is more appealing.

The Taylor ES2/ToneDexter sample sounds good - better than the ES2 by itself, no doubt. To my ears, however, it doesn't have some dimension that the other sample has. As I've mentioned before, I've never liked that inside-the-guitar perspective much in the past. With the Trance Audio/ToneDexter sample, however, an up-close bit of that perspective actually works for me. I find it to be bigger-than-life.


PS - It would be very interesting, with your Aura-equipped guitar, to hear how ToneDexter works with the dry Matrix signal versus how ToneDexter works with an optimum Aura Blend. It would be very impressive if the ToneDexter results were nearly identical (presuming the corresponding WaveMaps were made with the same training mic position).

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Hi Ken,

I did see that you posted the Taylor ES2/ToneDexter sample in the ToneDexter (continued) thread two days ago. I've been reluctant to comment because I've seen that you are really high on that particular combo and have been somewhat disappointed with the Trance Amulet/ToneDexter results (too bassy, for your taste). For my own taste, howver, the ES2/ToneDexter combo just doesn't appeal to me as strongly as the Trance Amulet/ToneDexter combo does. And of course, there are so many variables that its hard to be sure exactly why the later combo is more appealing.

The Taylor ES2/ToneDexter sample sounds good - better than the ES2 by itself, no doubt. To my ears, however, it doesn't have some dimension that the other sample has. As I've mentioned before, I've never liked that inside-the-guitar perspective much in the past. With the Trance Audio/ToneDexter sample, however, an up-close bit of that perspective actually works for me. I find it to be bigger-than-life.


PS - It would be very interesting, with your Aura-equipped guitar, to hear how ToneDexter works with the dry Matrix signal versus how ToneDexter works with an optimum Aura Blend. It would be very impressive if the ToneDexter results were nearly identical (presuming the corresponding WaveMaps were made with the same training mic position).

Gary, Thanks for your feedback! Frankly, I'm looking for the kind of straightforward opinions, such as you've presented, on my ToneDexterized recordings. The possibilities for achieving the kind of amplified tone that is pleasing to our ears are almost endless with ToneDexter experimentation. What will be even more engaging will be when firmware updates enable users to achieve what they deem their best live-performance AND recorded-performance WaveMaps for several guitars, and have them resident on the ToneDexter at the same time for different situations. With 22 WaveMap slots available on the ToneDexter, a player could easily have their best live-performance and recording-performance WaveMaps for several guitars and other instruments stored on the device.

With the Martin GPC-18E Aura VT Enhance, I'll make WaveMap recordings which will demo the Dexterized Martin with:
a) only its Matrix/Aura signal;
b) it's Matrix/Aura + Full-on Enhance SBT;
c) Aura/Matrix + Enhance SBT at the level I would run it at for the most pleasing tone to my ears.

My future Dexterized presentations will feature each guitar with recordings of:
a) pickup only
b) mic only
c) WaveMap

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Gary, Thanks for your feedback! Frankly, I'm looking for the kind of straightforward opinions, such as you've presented, on my ToneDexterized recordings. The possibilities for achieving the kind of amplified tone that is pleasing to our ears is almost endless with ToneDexter experimentation. What will be even more engaging will be when firmware updates enable users to achieve what they deem their best live-performance AND recorded-performance WaveMaps for several guitars, and have them resident on the ToneDexter at the same time for different situations. With 22 WaveMap slots available on the ToneDexter, a player could easily have their best live-performance and recording-performance WaveMaps for several guitars and other instruments stored on the device.

With the Martin GPC-18E Aura VT Enhance, I'll make WaveMap recordings which will demo the Dexterized Martin with:
a) only its Matrix/Aura signal;
b) it's Matrix/Aura + Full-on Enhance SBT;
c) Aura/Matrix + Enhance SBT at the level I would run it at for the most pleasing tone to my ears.

My future Dexterized presentations will feature each guitar with recordings of:
a) pickup only
b) mic only
c) WaveMap

Those should be some very interesting comparisons. I'm not sure, however, that Dexterizing the Matrix w/Aura will have any advantage over Dexterizing the pure Matrix signal. Its possible that ToneDexter might even have an easier time converting the (less complex) Matrix signal into a miked-guitar-like signal.

I definitely do see some advantage in Dexterizing a UST/SBT blend, since that combo will be more responsive to tapping and have a somewhat different response to your pick attack.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Those should be some very interesting comparisons. I'm not sure, however, that Dexterizing the Matrix w/Aura will have any advantage over Dexterizing the pure Matrix signal. Its possible that ToneDexter might even have an easier time converting the (less complex) Matrix signal into a miked-guitar-like signal.

I definitely do see some advantage in Dexterizing a UST/SBT blend, since that combo will be more responsive to tapping and have a somewhat different response to your pick attack.

The problem with the Matrix/Aura section of the Aura VT Enhance system is that the Aura Image is always resident, and, to my knowledge, can't be shut off.

With the RainSong WS1000, the Matrix acts like a cross between a UST and SBT because of the highly-efficient vibrational transmission characteristics of the carbon fiber.