Advice for gig using loudbox artists as PA

[windfall]

Hi
I am due to perform next week with a friend as a duo and up to now we have done open mics and a festival where we have not had to worry about sound, which was run by a sound guy through a PA and floor monitors. We are now due to be playing outside in a pub garden for 40-60 people, working without a PA.

The plan is for each of us to run vocal and guitar through our loudbox artists. I have been experimenting indoors at home and am struggling a bit with feedback on the vocal mic as soon as I increase the gain or master volume very much. I was wondering if anyone could advise on best position for the amps? Up on chairs, behind us? Just in front? Distance and angle....?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by windfall

Hi
I am due to perform next week with a friend as a duo and up to now we have done open mics and a festival where we have not had to worry about sound, which was run by a sound guy through a PA and floor monitors. We are now due to be playing outside in a pub garden for 40-60 people, working without a PA.

The plan is for each of us to run vocal and guitar through our loudbox artists. I have been experimenting indoors at home and am struggling a bit with feedback on the vocal mic as soon as I increase the gain or master volume very much. I was wondering if anyone could advise on best position for the amps? Up on chairs, behind us? Just in front? Distance and angle....?

Thanks in advance for any help.

You'll find that outside in the pub garden will be very different from playing indoors when it comes to feedback (volume, too). Placement will depend a lot on how the situation is set up, whether or not you need to monitor yourselves, etc., so it's hard to make blanket recommendations. Know what kind of pickup pattern the mic has, and place the amps with that in mind. Be aware of reflective surfaces that might be reflecting sound back into the mic from a direction in which the mic is sensitive (usually more of a problem indoors than out). You and your playing partner might want to try setting up in a backyard to test things out.

Louis

[lkingston]

One thing I will mention is that this is a situation where a hyper-cardiod mic like a Shure Beta-58 soundly beats a merely cardiod mic like a Shure SM-58. The pattern on a hyper-cardiod mic is tighter and being a little off axis provides much more protection from feedback with the more directional mic.

The insulation from handling noise also makes a difference. A Beta-58 has far better handling noise rejection than an SM-58. Often, for a typical guitarist, this doesn't matter because the mic is in a stand. In fact, I've heard players who benefited from a bit of foot stomp being picked up by the less insulated mic! In high volume feedback prone situations however, this can translate into unwanted feedback and resonances as the mic picks up vibrations from the floor, the cables, and the stage and resonates and feeds back at those frequencies.

A good hyper-cardiod mic with good handling isolation will give you the best chance of avoiding feedback through your vocal mic. Just remember to keep your mic pointing off axis from your amp if it is behind you.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

[windfall]

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately we are stuck with SM-58 mics. We are going to have a practice in the garden this evening and see how it goes...

[Finger Stylish]

The Loudbox Artist will be great outdoors.
I set my Loudbox Amps behind me so I don't need a monitor.
Indoors can be a mixed bag. Open High ceilings with tile floors can be bad for any sound equipment. Set close to the floor in those settings with the Loudbox,s.
I have been using My Loudbox's (I have all 3) as my only system for 2 years. They work well. I use the Performer and the Artist together most of the time. At times, the mini get used for keyboard, very small venues, and sometimes as a monitor as shown in the Picture.

[windfall]

yeah, I think we will have to have ours behind usas we won't have a monitor. I assume the ideal would be to give them some space to the right and left of us, as well as depth between us and them, in order to minimise feedback?

[dannyg1]

Setting the amps up on the floor and, if you can, with their backs up close to a wall will accentuate lower mid and bass frequencies, giving the amps the solid sound that makes them so attractive to me. That all changes if you're on a stage riser or even a floor thats too resonant, which will vibrate the riser and
have that bass travel up your mic stand and feedback.

So a good place to start is to try and isolate your mic stand from bass vibrations caused by the amps. distance can help, volume level is also important. the second thing that causes lots of feedback trouble is mic coverage, as others have told you. High frequency squeal is almost always caused by a tweeter in line with a mics pickup pattern. Low frequency rumble is almost always caused by lows traveling the mic stand. if you get both, you're probably either using a too loud monitor or a LD condensor mic on the stage (or your levels are far too high, or your speakers aren't close to flat enough for the job).

Contrary to the concerns of most, avoiding feedback is only the very beginning of what you're looking to do. The other 95% of your worries should be dedicated to sounding great for the audience and good sound for the players on stage, so they can perform their best.

Putting speakers too far in back of you will give good sound to the player but will bleed signal back through the mics and limit levels you can work at. Mounting speakers too far in front of you will allow much higher audience levels but will wash the players with only low mid and bass sounds, leqving you two wondering what you sound like. The ideal solution will probably be to set your speakers far enough away from you to allow high audience volume, without too much back and side cabinet low mid/bass bleed, but angled slightly to give you players some off axis tweeter coverage.

You'll probably want to aim the tweeters of the amps at the audiences eye level or slightly above.

If all else fails, turn all the reverbs on the amps off and angle them from the floor up to 'light' the room with reflected sound. You wont be able to get a lot of level this way but it can make it so everyone in the room, including players, hears almost the same thing. It helps to think of the speakers as spotlights that you're trying to light up the whole room with. Tweeters are like pin spots and are extremely focussed, woofers are like car headlights.

I

[roylor4]

Extraneous info, post deleted

[Bluemooncricket]

I just played my nephew's outdoor wedding (60 people) with an Artist and SM58. We were on a very cramped "gazebo" so I ended up putting the amp on the railing to my right side, just slightly behind me. I was using a stool so the amp was at chest level. Obviously amp placement will vary by venue but if you're not on a riser or stage, I'd recommend getting the amp up on a chair or stool. As long as the mic isn't directly in front of the amp feedback shouldn't be a problem. Remember, the artist has anti-feedback controls to include a phase switch and tweeter control. You should have all the tools to get the job done. Good luck and enjoy yourself!!

[windfall]

Originally Posted by Bluemooncricket

I just played my nephew's outdoor wedding (60 people) with an Artist and SM58. We were on a very cramped "gazebo" so I ended up putting the amp on the railing to my right side, just slightly behind me. I was using a stool so the amp was at chest level. Obviously amp placement will vary by venue but if you're not on a riser or stage, I'd recommend getting the amp up on a chair or stool. As long as the mic isn't directly in front of the amp feedback shouldn't be a problem. Remember, the artist has anti-feedback controls to include a phase switch and tweeter control. You should have all the tools to get the job done. Good luck and enjoy yourself!!

Thanks for this - really helpful. Will report back