trouble with barre chords

[Westy]

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS

I actually think full barre F is easier than mini-barre F.

I don't have any issues whatsoever playing the mini F or Bm for that matter but struggle with Barre chords as well. It's not the guitar it's my 50 yr old hands that have Never done anything requiring fine dexterity in their life. The problem isn't one of strength I can hold a Barre ok it's getting the other fingers to land on the correct strings

There's is some light in the tunnel as I practice Barre chords daily and can move a few around slowly, I intend to work around them where possible .

[Bluepoet]

For me, it started coming together when I started playing some songs, using E, then sliding up to G, or A, or B barre chords...I found that, further up the neck, it was easier to lay down the barre...(talking about the E shaped barre chord here)

For a long time, I couldn't play an F barre chord, in first position, so, in order to make it sound "fuller" I learned to add the 5th string, with my little finger. Still, not as good a sound as the full barre, but, one day, I found it actually easier to barre the F...

My point is that, unless there's some physical problem, it will come, in time. I found that it helped me most, when I played them higher up on the neck, and learned to slide them down...it also helped me to practice alternating forming the barre, by first laying down my index finger, then the others, and then reversing that...actually forming the chord, then adding the barre seemed much more productive, for me. Also, holding my elbow slightly in toward my body helped.

One last thing I noticed....it's not so much strength, as it is placement. Clenching your hand means you're doing it wrong. You have to find that sweet spot, where your index finger cleanly barres the fretboard. Then, work from there, with your other fingers, wrist, elbow, etc...

Good luck everyone...as for me, I'm still working on the A-shape, using my ring finger on three strings...that's still tough for me, after years--it's like learning two-barres, but one day, it will seem simple...

[skitoolong]

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS

I actually think full barre F is easier than mini-barre F.

Now that I can do a full barre F, I agree - except when coming from a C shape where I can just roll my index finger down and adjust my others.

[skitoolong]

Originally Posted by Westy

I don't have any issues whatsoever playing the mini F or Bm for that matter but struggle with Barre chords as well. It's not the guitar it's my 50 yr old hands that have Never done anything requiring fine dexterity in their life. The problem isn't one of strength I can hold a Barre ok it's getting the other fingers to land on the correct strings

There's is some light in the tunnel as I practice Barre chords daily and can move a few around slowly, I intend to work around them where possible .

A couple of songs that seemed to be great "exercise" songs that I found very very helpful:

Rooster - Alice in Chains. It has the usual E shape barre chord. This also has a shape like the E shape barre but you only have to fret the low E with your index finger and the rest of the strings ring open. Easy, repetitive sliding up and down neck. Awesome strength building.

Walk Don't Run - Ventures intro. Barre Am, G, F, open E. Repeat. Really fun. Really teaches how quick on/off pressure works when you are sliding up neck.

As soon as I started working on progressions like these, my strength and skill developed fast.

[Roselynne]

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS

I actually think full barre F is easier than mini-barre F.

Maybe. It's just starting to feel that way. But I've been playing the mini-barre a lot longer, so I've got that on auto-pilot.

I also believe those who say they were able to get full barres down in a few days or even less. But from my own experience, and folks I've spoken with, weeks or months is not at all uncommon. Guess we can chalk that up to the fact that beginners' fingers come in a variety of levels of strength and flexibility.

[mcasey329]

It takes a long time if your hand and fingers do not yet have the muscle dexterity to hold the position so that it can be played cleanly. Once the hand and fingers can hold the form you have to able to do that to a some kind of tempo which takes more practice.

I would love to meet the teacher than can have a student in days as someone suggested being able to finger the forms get all the strings to ring clearly and do it in tempo. I haven’t met anyone yet that can magically take my 49YO fingers and hands and make them do things they are not trained to do let alone do not have the coordination to do. Sure I can slowly get my hand info the forms needed for all these chords if the stretch isn’t too far but to do it at a tempo of any kind did not happen without training.

The A shape barre has taken me months to get my 3rd finger coordinated and strong enough to have the bend and hold it so that I can play the 4th 3rd and 2nd strings cleanly while allowing enough space for the e string to be available and able to be played clearly by the barre set by the index finger.

These things take time and patience. Work on it a little bit each day and eventually you will notice that motions you could not do before can be done, Positions that you couldn’t hold you can hold and move. It is part of the journey, enjoy it. It is very satisfying knowing that the work put into something for a focused period of time has resulted in the music you are now able to be produce as a result of that work.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Bluepoet

For me, it started coming together when I started playing some songs...

I think this is the key here, know the fingering and apply it, rhythmically as well, within the context of a piece of music. I know in the beginning it sounds horrible, but it will get better like anything else we learn on the guitar.

[Westy]

Originally Posted by skitoolong

A couple of songs that seemed to be great "exercise" songs that I found very very helpful:

Rooster - Alice in Chains. It has the usual E shape barre chord. This also has a shape like the E shape barre but you only have to fret the low E with your index finger and the rest of the strings ring open. Easy, repetitive sliding up and down neck. Awesome strength building.

Walk Don't Run - Ventures intro. Barre Am, G, F, open E. Repeat. Really fun. Really teaches how quick on/off pressure works when you are sliding up neck.

As soon as I started working on progressions like these, my strength and skill developed fast.

That looks like good advice as its exactly the same advice a workmate gave me who has been playing for over 40 years. He said find an easy slow song with a couple of E shaped chords and slowly practice them.

[wcap]

Perhaps some folks can play them well immediately. Personally I find this hard to believe (after all, few people play any new cord well immediately), but I'll accept what people are saying about this.

But I'll share my experience. I played 5 string banjo and some mandolin for about 30 years prior to getting obsessed with guitar. I was pretty good on banjo. So, I was not exactly new to stringed instruments. When I started trying to play barre chords on guitar they felt very awkward to me, and difficult in some cases. I just plugged away at it, did not obsess about how awkward it seemed, and figured it would get easier with time and persistence. It took me about a year of this to have barre chords feel second nature. Perhaps I'm just really slow, but people tell me I'm a pretty decent player, so I don't think I'm totally incompetent at learning things like this.

So, the take home message I think is that for some people it just takes some time (as has every other new skill I have tried to learn on guitar).

[wcap]

By the way, a useful tip that Larry (who posted in this thread above) has shared in other threads is that a lot (probably most) of the force should be coming from your arm (pulling back on the neck), not from a vise-like grip with your hand. If all the force on the strings is coming from the grip of your hand you will probably find it hard (unless you have really strong hands), and you will likely have a lot of hand strain.

Maybe Larry can elaborate (or correct me if I have garbled this a bit).

Incidentally, when I have occasion to shake hands with other people, I have discovered that some people have amazingly powerful hands compared to mine. I suspect that this sort of hand strength variation can play a role in people's experiences with barre chords. But having said that, I recall Larry talking about various petite female students he has had who could do barre chords much more easily than some of his male students with really strong hands, largely because their technique involved using arm strength (as described above) more than hand strength.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by wcap

...Maybe Larry can elaborate (or correct me if I have garbled this a bit).

Hi wcap...

I'd be happy to. In my past 37 years of teaching locally, it sure appears the barre chord hurdle is one which must be addressed and overcome. I think there are little tidbits which help. Barres are not about finger or wrist strength.

Here are three short (1 min) videos I did for students and friends to reinforce what we cover during lessons. They address "Where is the pressure…" "Basics of barre formation from above and behind the neck…" and "Understanding how to leverage your barre position…"

Where is the Pressure? - CLiCK

Barre From Above and Behind - CLiCK

Barre from Front - CLiCK

Hope these help some…

[JoeCharter]

There's playing barre chords, and there's really playing barre chords.

A beginner can take a few hours to a few days to play a single barre chord cleanly. Some may take a few weeks. A few will never make it.

As for playing clean barres swiftly and being really good at it, a lot of so called advanced player never even get there. It takes years of practice to become really really good at it.

[Westy]

Those were excellent videos Larry showing the mechanics of holding a barre chord. I spent quite a few hours today playing the F and G barre chords in songs and pretty well had it nailed by the end.

Interestingly I realised while messing around with other barre shapes and positions I realised I had to think more about where I was going to find the chords on the fretboard. More options for chords are now starting to become obvious to me rather than having to look them up.

I think I will focus on doing just this and playing scales for the next few weeks and see what comes of it.

Cheers

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Westy

T...... More options for chords are now starting to become obvious to me rather than having to look them up......

This, I think, is one of the huge advantages of getting comfortable with barre chords. I used to struggle when playing music with my wife if I would run into some chord I didn't know (e.g. an F sharp minor, for example), but with barre chords I can usually figure out how to play most chords I encounter without much trouble.

By the way, one thing I used to do (and still sometimes do) was to play a given chord over and over again, cycling through all the different ways I knew how to play it - e.g. open position, the E-form barre, and the A-form barre. Since the open forms of the chords were second nature to me, I found it useful to associate them with the various barre forms to get better at substituting the barre on the fly.

[JerrysGuitarBar]

Here's a short video with some tips on making barre chord shapes. It certainly isn't definitive but maybe something in there can help you.

Jerry

http://youtu.be/YzubQheSvcA