Changing tuners on a CF guitar

[Bluside]

I'm thinking about changing the tuners on my Emerald X20. Mine has the mini chrome Grover Rotomatics and I love the looks of the Gotoh 510 tuners (space black) that are used on the new ones. The small screw hole on the back will have to be filled in and redrilled for the new hole pattern. Otherwise, the tuners should fit in the existing large hole with no problem.,

What does anyone recommend to fill in the little screw hole with? I have done this on a wood guitar, but not CF.

As always, thanks in advance.

[Bluside]

This is what I am thinking of doing. You can see the small hole left from the Grover tuner.

I think I'd email Alistair and ask him what he would do. I think I'd get a solid black plastic round of some sort (perhaps a chop stick), cut a small plug, and carefully glue in the plug then lightly rub out the surface. That might be the wrong thing to do but it strikes me as a possibility.

[ac]

Let us know what Alistair suggest. I've done the same replacement but found the Gotoh tuner holes will line up with the old Grover holes exactly--but then leave the tuning heads all at a slight downward angle.

I left mine that way just because I did not wish to drill new holes and fill the empty holes. I also kind of like the odd, assymetric look the angle of the tuner knobs have--something like some traditional Asian instruments I've seen.

Still, someday I'll likely drill and fill.

I've also got the same finish you have so would appreciate learning what you learn.

[Bluside]

I wrote to Alistair yesterday. Have not heard back from him yet.

I also wrote to Stewart McDonald and they replied with this... "There are carbon fiber fillers out there that could do the trick, but unfortunately we don't have anyone here with experience using them. One of our techs had come across a similar situation and used Epoxy to get the job done, so you could certainly go that route."

I like AC's suggestion, a lot; no drilling required, a slightly different look. Cool.

To make an epoxy filler look right you would have to use some coloring agent to blend in with headstock. The epoxy fillers I've seen come in a grey color. I suppose you could paint over them with black and blend them in. I think I'd go the AC way.

[Bluside]

I just heard back from Alistair at Emerald Guitars...

"If we were doing it here we would use a little drop of black polyester resin. You may be able to get Polyester resin in a local DIY store or car parts shop. Just be careful sanding and levelling it not to sand through the paint finish. "

[Long tooth]

Originally Posted by Bluside

I just heard back from Alistair at Emerald Guitars...

"If we were doing it here we would use a little drop of black polyester resin. You may be able to get Polyester resin in a local DIY store or car parts shop. Just be careful sanding and levelling it not to sand through the paint finish. "

He must use a polyester matrix resin in the prepreg sheets...most common epoxies are traditional BPA (bisphenol A) formulations. Epoxy will adhere, but polyester will adhere better. The loads are probably low (even if you have to drill the filled area for the new screw) so it's not a big deal.

It would seem like you'd have to repaint the back of the headstock after you finished leveling if you wanted a super clean result.

I assume you plan on hanging on to the instrument. If that is true, then it seems like a very optional thing to do. I'd install the new ones and see how much of a problem you really have before going to the trouble of filling.

[ac]

Can anyone point me to an Amazon or similar link for this type of polyester resin? I'm really not familiar with it. Is it like epoxy and so is mixed with a hardner in the same manner?

I'd also love to see a video how someone works with it and finishes it such a situation. I have a great fear of making an enormous mess of it--but seeing someone working in a similar situation can help me enormously.

I'm still not sure I'll follow through and do anything at this point, but if I could confidently do a neat job of it, I might be more inclined to go forward.

And . . . is the resin clear? Can it be colored easily? Or is just black?

thanks

[Long tooth]

Try US Composites. 561-588-1001. They might be able to sell or send you a 'sample'. I think they usually sell the resin and the peroxide hardener by the quart which is waaaay more than you need. Tell them what you are doing and they might be able to provide some guidance.

You could practice a little on some scrap material before you actually tried the repair on your instrument....that is what I do when I am in unfamiliar territory. Make your mistakes on something inconsequential.

[Bluside]

OP here...I'm starting to think that I should just forget about this project. There seems to be too great a risk of screwing something up and not making it look right. I've filled in wood hole before, but I'm in unfamiliar territory here.

There is nothing wrong with the tuners on the guitar now. Maybe I'll just swap out the chrome Grovers for black ones.

Although, the Gotoh 510s sure are nice.

[Bluside]

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I know how we all like pictures.

I decided not to go with the Gotoh 510 swap and deal with filling the hole. Instead, I bought some Grover minis in black. I took these pictures when I had 3 of them installed.

What do you guys think? Does the black or chrome look better? (I should point out that everything else on the guitar is black...strap buttons, bridge, and saddle.)

Blu;

Good decision making.

There is one other thing that could have been done which I just now considered. The holes could have been filled with some good looking high-screws with small, black, heads, and then you could have changed back and forth at will.

Of course then you'd have to fess up that your guitar has blackheads. Well, it is a young guitar.

[StillStephen]

Looks great. I really prefer the black tuners on the Emeralds, makes the Irish Dog logo stand out!

[Alistair Hay]

Im glad to hear you went with the black grovers in the end. Its the safest solution and they look great. Since we started using black tuners I just can't imagine using anything else. It just suits carbon better.
For future reference, its a pretty tricky task to successfully disguise the holes even with filling with resin because you always see a hole outline.
If we were doing it here we would mix a small batch of black polyester and then work it into the hole using a piece of guitar string. We take extreme care to only get it in the hole and build up enough the it just fills the hole. If you are very precise you can get away without levelling and leave it at that.
For the final finish we would carefully flat sand the filled holes level with the rest of the headstock and re polish. Its the final polishing step where things can go wrong and you could easily go through the original paintwork.
Proceed with care but we are always here to assist with info either by email or phone.
Alistair