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  #1  
Old 01-25-2014, 04:13 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Default Anyone play an upright bass?

Does anyone play an upright bass? The "big" ones they use in bluegrass? Just curious about the strings and how difficult they are (or are not) on the fingers.
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  #2  
Old 01-25-2014, 05:29 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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Yup.

The 3/4 size upright is the standard instrument used by most upright players.
They are a VERY physical instrument and you have to develop calloused fingers (both left hand and the the fleshy portion of the first two fingers on the right hand to pluck with). They require a bit of muscle build-up, but if a bass is set up properly and has good strings they aren't terribly difficult to play. Make sure you can wrestle one in your car if you're driving a sub-compact. Many people are surprised as to the amount of room they take up.

A word of advice, research your purchase and don't think that the import bass from your favorite catalog or local music store will last much longer than the time it takes for the short warranty period to expire.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:30 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Used to play one in high school, an old '40s Kay blonde with gut strings (wish I had bought it before I graduated...) that was an absolute bear to handle; as with many school instruments, it was a case of "buy it and stick it in the music room, as-is" - and the fact that a few years of playing one of those trainwreck old Harmony archtops (strung with genuine New Brunswick Black Diamond heavy-gauge neckwreckers) resulted in a left-hand grip worthy of King Kong was the only thing that allowed me (and one other guy in the entire school) to get any kind of tone/volume out of it...

That said, things have come a long way since the mid-60's in terms of both luthierie knowledge and instrument technology; just as with a guitar, a double bass can be set up to play with surprising ease - if you find someone who knows what he/she is doing. Frankly, I've been considering adding one to my instrument stable for a while now (when/if I find the space ) - and having learned the hard way what does not constitute a proper setup, I'd gladly invest the extra money (think about $200/up depending on initial instrument quality, amount of work needed, type of strings, etc.) to have it done right from the get-go. Again using guitar as a reference point, you'll need to be extremely specific with the luthier in terms of your intended usage, if you're going to get the most out of your instrument; just as a fingerstylist and a flatpicker with otherwise-identical instruments will have widely differing needs in terms of action, string gauge/type, neck relief, etc., a bluegrass bassist who plays exclusively pizzicato will have very different requirements than a classical soloist (who rarely strays from arco), a small-combo jazzer who uses both techniques, or a rockabilly slap-cat...

Since Rudy covered most of the basics, in the interest of space - volumes can easily be written on the subject - I'm not going to get in to the fine points of instrument selection/setup here; I've listed a few of my favorite websites below - between them you should be able to find whatever information you're after:

http://www.gollihurmusic.com/
http://www.uptonbass.com/
http://www.lemurmusic.com/
http://www.davidgage.com/
http://kolstein.mivamerchant.net/mm5...gory_Code=bass
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:59 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Rudy and Steve, thanks for the replies. I had a fleeting moment last year that maybe adding an upright bass, next to the banjo and mandolin I bought last year, would be a nice addition to the guitar room. I really don't think I will but based on what I read it's like any other instrument - you pay for quality.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:24 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
...based on what I read it's like any other instrument - you pay for quality.
- and, just as we guitarists have instruments that far exceed the tonal expectations of their modest prices - Blueridge, Recording King, Eastman, The Loar, the various Godin products - there are fine-playing, modestly-priced basses available from the vendors I listed, among others. One little-known fact among the uninitiated is that laminated construction does not hold the same stigma (or tonal drawbacks) as it does in the guitar world; many experienced players consider vintage Epiphone and Kay instruments (as well as the rare-as-dinosaur-poop pre-war Gibsons) to be the Holy Grail of tone - so if you're not up to the four- or five-figure price of admission for a fully-carved piece (IMO the solid-top/lam-backs are neither fish nor fowl, lacking both the four-season stability of the all-laminated basses and the rich tonal complexity of the fully-carved models) a serviceable, easy-playing bass can be had for the price of a midline guitar from one of the "Big Three" American makers. I say save your bucks and go for it - if you travel in exclusively acoustic circles it'll open up a whole new world of opportunities...
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:30 AM
tdan tdan is offline
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Yes, I have played bluegrass bass for years, great instrument to have at a jam. It is a physical instrument and it has its challenges but that shouldn't turn you off. I think it is more about good technique and and playing enough to keep in shape. I like gut strings but there are a lot of options out there.

An entry level 3/4 bass costs a lot more than an equivilent guitar. A playable laminate bass will run about 2k. Set up is very important and you really need to work with someone who specializes in violin family instruments. A full setup on a new factory instrument can run about 1k. Strings cost a lot more but can last years.

High-end carved basses sell for some serious coin but aren't really nessary/appropriate. The iconic country and bluegrass players used laminated basses. Kays, American Standard, Epiphone, etc. Thumpy with a big fundamental.

The folks over at the talkbass double bass forum are very knowledgable and they have a great FAQ for folks interested in looking for their first bass.

Defiantly worth finding an experienced player to help you get started. Intonation, tone, and acoustic volume all take work to develop. Playing even simple 1-5 parts can be suprisingly difficult until you develop a solid foundation.

I don't play bass at home alone much but it is always welcome at a jam. Helps the ensable sound a lot more than yet another guitarist :-)
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:16 AM
Dan Carey Dan Carey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
Rudy and Steve, thanks for the replies. I had a fleeting moment last year that maybe adding an upright bass, next to the banjo and mandolin I bought last year, would be a nice addition to the guitar room. I really don't think I will but based on what I read it's like any other instrument - you pay for quality.
Maybe think smaller and go for a fiddle? You're already half way there with a mando...same tuning!
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:00 AM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
- and, just as we guitarists have instruments that far exceed the tonal expectations of their modest prices - Blueridge, Recording King, Eastman, The Loar, the various Godin products - there are fine-playing, modestly-priced basses available from the vendors I listed, among others. One little-known fact among the uninitiated is that laminated construction does not hold the same stigma (or tonal drawbacks) as it does in the guitar world; many experienced players consider vintage Epiphone and Kay instruments (as well as the rare-as-dinosaur-poop pre-war Gibsons) to be the Holy Grail of tone - so if you're not up to the four- or five-figure price of admission for a fully-carved piece (IMO the solid-top/lam-backs are neither fish nor fowl, lacking both the four-season stability of the all-laminated basses and the rich tonal complexity of the fully-carved models) a serviceable, easy-playing bass can be had for the price of a midline guitar from one of the "Big Three" American makers. I say save your bucks and go for it - if you travel in exclusively acoustic circles it'll open up a whole new world of opportunities...
Thanks Steve - great info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Carey View Post
Maybe think smaller and go for a fiddle? You're already half way there with a mando...same tuning!
LOL, you know, the fiddle should be next on my list. I'm not really looking to get an upright bass but it's always nice to learn.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:41 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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Much as I loved my Englehardt 3/4 acoustic upright, I settled on this as a solution to a number of my bass problems:

http://www.bluestemstrings.com/pageBassCUBE.html
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  #10  
Old 01-26-2014, 09:58 AM
philjs philjs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Carey View Post
Maybe think smaller and go for a fiddle? You're already half way there with a mando...same tuning!
An octave mandolin might be easier...same tuning and same technique but fuller sound. Seems to me Russel may still have a bouzar --an octave mandolin in a tenor guitar body -- for sale...(highly recommended)!

OR if you really, really want a bass, a Kala UBass might be just the thing (though you will need a small bass amp...you can hear one to practice on but you'll need amplification for a "real" bass sound).

Phil
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:59 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
Does anyone play an upright bass? The "big" ones they use in bluegrass? Just curious about the strings and how difficult they are (or are not) on the fingers.
Yep. There are many different kinds of strings ... from traditional gut strings to modern "weed wacker" string used in rockabilly. Just like the guitar the setup of the instrument is crucial. It's expensive to experiment with strings on a bass ... rather than $5-10 a set like a guitar, we pay $100-400 a set. Yeah, no kiddin'.

If you're really interested check out Talkbass Forum Double Bass
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:12 AM
Psalad Psalad is offline
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I have a bsx upright electric as well a a 3/4 double bass of unknown origin. The upright electric gets a lot more use since it's a lot easier to transport and really doesn't sound that significantly different once the sound makes the way through the amp.

The upright electric is easier to play as well.

However the acoustic bass is a lot more fun to play...

It hasn't been that hard of an adjustment for me, but it did take practice and work. One thing I did was put little "fret" markers on the side of the bass strategically so I knew where to go for best intonation. They are still there but I don't have to pay much attention to them anymore.

I say go for it!!!

I will also not let the price tag limit your thinking. My double bass cost me $500 used and it records fine and plays fine. I personally think it's better to get something cheap and playable and see if you like it enough to keep it. I think people want you to spend a lot of money to get started when it's not really worth it IMHO.
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  #13  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:59 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philjs View Post
An octave mandolin might be easier...same tuning and same technique but fuller sound. Seems to me Russel may still have a bouzar --an octave mandolin in a tenor guitar body -- for sale...(highly recommended)!

OR if you really, really want a bass, a Kala UBass might be just the thing (though you will need a small bass amp...you can hear one to practice on but you'll need amplification for a "real" bass sound).

Phil
I've played that "guitar" a few times when I visited Russel Crosby. It has an amazing sound. It's tuned in 5ths, correct? With 4 courses? I think we're talking about the same one.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:42 PM
philjs philjs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
I've played that "guitar" a few times when I visited Russel Crosby. It has an amazing sound. It's tuned in 5ths, correct? With 4 courses? I think we're talking about the same one.
I know he made a 2nd one (after I bought the first one) that was not quite as deep but yeah it's a 4 course, unison pairs, instrument with a 23" scale, 1.5" nut and a body modeled on a Martin size 0. I also know that it will come with a Hiscox case (because I sold Russel the case). When I first played mine, Russel had it tuned to "standard" tenor guitar tuning (CGDA, the low C is equivalent to the 3rd fret on the 5th (A) string of a guitar), as you said, 5ths (an octave above a viola or a mandocello), but when I went to pick it up he had strung it for "guitar top" tuning, that is DGBE.

It sounded great either way but I wanted something lower so I now keep mine tuned GDGC (same intervals as DADG). It's a fairly minor change in string gauges for GDAD ore GDAE (back to 5ths, this time an octave below a mandolin/violin). I bought myself a set of nut files so I could do my own setups/maintenance and stringing it for the lower tuning was pretty simple.

Phil
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  #15  
Old 01-26-2014, 07:33 PM
letseatpaste letseatpaste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philjs View Post
OR if you really, really want a bass, a Kala UBass might be just the thing (though you will need a small bass amp...you can hear one to practice on but you'll need amplification for a "real" bass sound).

Phil
I was reading through the thread to see if anyone else would mention a U-bass. I started playing in a little acoustic bluegrass and country band last year, and I picked up a U-bass almost on a whim. A proper upright was out of the question since I can't fit one in my current car. I had an upright for years but sold it a few years ago. The U-bass sounds AMAZING, really deep tones like an upright, it's perfect for that style of music. The only real downside is needing electricity and an amp when you're playing in an otherwise acoustic group.

The really fun thing is that it is so easy to play with the short scale and the low tension of the rubbery strings. We play two and three hour gigs and I can walk those bass lines all night without killing my fingers. It's also a good conversation starter at gigs, everyone wants to come up afterwards and ask about it.
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