The Importance of Struggle... ~ Chinua Achebe

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Below is the entry for "valid" from Merriam Webster. Which definition are you using when you ask your question?

val·id\ˈva-ləd\
adjective
: fair or reasonable
: acceptable according to the law
Full Definition
1 : having legal efficacy or force; especially : executed with the proper legal authority and formalities <a valid contract>
2 a : well-grounded or justifiable : being at once relevant and meaningful <a valid theory>
b : logically correct <a valid argument> <valid inference>
3 : appropriate to the end in view : effective <every craft has its own valid methods>
4 of a taxon : conforming to accepted principles of sound biological classification
va·lid·i·ty \və-ˈli-də-tē, va-\ noun
val·id·ly \ˈva-ləd-lē\ adverb
Examples
your argument isn't valid because you're taking what should be the conclusion and using it as a premise
only further investigation will show whether your theory is valid
Origin: Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French valide, from Medieval Latin validus, from Latin, strong, potent, from valēre.
First use: 1571
Synonyms: analytic (or analytical), coherent, consequent, good, rational, reasonable, sensible, sound, logical, well-founded, well-grounded
Antonyms: illegitimate, illogical, incoherent, inconsequent, inconsequential, invalid, irrational, unreasonable, unsound, weak
Synonym discussion: valid sound cogent convincing telling mean having such force as to compel serious attention and usually acceptance. valid implies being supported by objective truth or generally accepted authority <a valid reason for being absent> <a valid marriage>. sound implies a basis of flawless reasoning or of solid grounds <a sound proposal for reviving the economy>. cogent may stress either weight of sound argument and evidence or lucidity of presentation <the prosecutor's cogent summation won over the jury>. convincing suggests a power to overcome doubt, opposition, or reluctance to accept <a convincing argument for welfare reform>. telling stresses an immediate and crucial effect striking at the heart of a matter <a telling example of bureaucratic waste>.

" All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others " George Orwell

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Perhaps he’s a parable.

I like that thought.....

[KevWind]

Seems to me the parable is more an observance of perspective than outcome

[rbock]

When I was a little kid, I had a pet box turtle I kept in a 3 ft deep window-well outside my basement bedroom. I fed it grasshoppers and ground beef and let it out to run around the yard, probably in a futile attempt to escape.

I kept it throughout the summer, then one fall day, the window-well was empty. Digging down a couple of feet until I could see the top of the shell, I determined it had simply gone into hibernation. I covered it back up, thinking it would emerge again in the spring.

I waited expectantly for the weather to warm and the buried turtle to come up, but it never did. I finally dug back down expecting to find the turtle or, more likely, its remains, but it had disappeared and left no trace.

I like that ending better.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Seems to me the parable is more an observance of perspective than outcome

Possibly so...

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

In many ways the struggle from single cell creatures to our present state is what has created us...and continues to let all of us know that we are alive.

Bingo. Nicely played, Larry. With that expression of your worldview, you have effectively shut out those of who think otherwise, and who, in abiding by the rules of this forum, are unable to respond.

[Gmountain]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Bingo. Nicely played, Larry. With that expression of your worldview, you have effectively shut out those of who think otherwise, and who, in abiding by the rules of this forum, are unable to respond.

I don't understand at all.

[Basalt Beach]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

I don’t know a single human being whose life is without struggle...

...or any living organism, for that matter.

In many ways the struggle from single cell creatures to our present state is what has created us...and continues to let all of us know that we are alive.

Perspective, Perspective, Perspective

Originally Posted by KevWind

Seems to me the parable is more an observance of perspective than outcome

Oh...here it is +1

Some threads struggle, not this one!

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Bingo. Nicely played, Larry. With that expression of your worldview, you have effectively shut out those of who think otherwise, and who, in abiding by the rules of this forum, are unable to respond.

Even those people share in the common experience of the daily human struggle...regardless of, you know, s-c-i-e-n-c-e.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Gmountain

I don't understand at all.

Agreed, hard to understand given nothing and no one has been "effectively shut out"... feeling shut out and unable to respond because of abiding by the rules, is a self inflicted condition.


But going back to some of your statements, perhaps consider the possible contradiction and irony of :

"We need to get away from the idea that "trying" is a win. It's not. Winning is a win. That's the whole participation trophy nonsense. There is a winner and a loser."

"Why aren't all posts equally valid? Only some points of view count?"

In a narrow context , all posts are "equally valid" only if there is a "participation trophy", otherwise posts are either "winners" or "losers"--- Which one is it ?
Or do some simple blanket statements fail to adequately represent the nuance and complexity of reality?
Or is it actually possible to be some of both depending on the situation and context ?

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by Gmountain

I don't understand at all.

Originally Posted by KevWind

Agreed, hard to understand given nothing and no one has been "effectively shut out"... feeling shut out and unable to respond because of abiding by the rules, is a self inflicted condition.

Hint: Not everyone believes we evolved from single-cell organisms. To respond with their alternate perspective would be against the forum rules, and I admire people who have a "self-inflicted condition" or abiding by the rules they agreed to when signing up here.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by jhmulkey

Hint: Not everyone believes we evolved from single-cell organisms. To respond with their alternate perspective would be against the forum rules, and I admire people who have a "self-inflicted condition" or abiding by the rules they agreed to when signing up here.

The alternate perspective is not without it's own struggles for man, no?

Not trying to get to far into it, other than to say the perspective isn't that different, if you view it from the standpoint of struggle, and struggle making us who we are.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jhmulkey

Hint: Not everyone believes we evolved from single-cell organisms. To respond with their alternate perspective would be against the forum rules, and I admire people who have a "self-inflicted condition" or abiding by the rules they agreed to when signing up here.

I am completely aware of alternate beliefs of origin. I am also completely aware it is entirely possible, and I know people with such beliefs who are quite able to craft cogent arguments without "breaking forum rules", ... Although it takes some knowledge, original thought, and a bit of work to do so, as opposed to the self inflicted condition of simply resorting to forum banned cliche, or feeling shut out .

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

The alternate perspective is not without it's own struggles for man, no?

Not trying to get to far into it, other than to say the perspective isn't that different, if you view it from the standpoint of struggle, and struggle making us who we are.

Sure, I was just trying to explain where I think eatswodo is coming from. I imagine if someone prefaced the same statement with the alternate perspective of where we came from, it would get edited (and rightfully so). So why not leave such loaded statements out and just focus on the struggle? Although I would have to add that the difference in world view definitely does change the nature of the struggle entirely, so it is true that some folks will not be able to reply sufficiently within the rules.

Originally Posted by KevWind

I am completely aware of alternate beliefs of origin. I am also completely aware it is entirely possible and I know people with such beliefs who are entirely able to make cogent arguments without "breaking forum rules". Although it takes some knowledge, original thought and work to do so, as opposed to the self inflicted condition of simply resorting to forum banned cliche.

See my reply to mr. beaumont above. I've made my point, and as much as I'd like to say something further about this, I'm going to drop it and let the chips fall where they may.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by jhmulkey

Sure, I was just trying to explain where I think eatswodo is coming from. I imagine if someone prefaced the same statement with the alternate perspective of where we came from, it would get edited (and rightfully so). So why not leave such loaded statements out and just focus on the struggle?

Well, I don't think Larry was trying to push a belief system...I think he was trying to expound on the length/scope of said struggle.