Higher Fidelity

Mr. Jelly · #1 11-23-2016, 06:26 AM

I am recording solo guitar with no vocal or any other instruments. The point is to be a recording of a solo acoustic guitar. I am able to get a good recording and process it to have it sound as good as most solo guitar recordings that I've heard. And that's about all I listen to now days. I play guitar and I think I am asking the impossible here as I would like to have that live guitar sound in the recording. More fidelity maybe? I don't know. In other words I play the recording and then I play the guitar and there is a difference in sound as the live sound has more going on sonically. Can you make a recording sound like a instrument being played live? Not just a representation.

MikeBmusic · #2 11-23-2016, 08:26 AM

Are you using one mic or two? What mics are you using? What is the room like where you are recording?
I think you may be confusing what you hear when playing in the room (2 ears, sound of guitar sound reflecting off walls) vs what the mic(s) pick up on your recording.

ChuckS · #3 11-23-2016, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

....[snip].... In other words I play the recording and then I play the guitar and there is a difference in sound as the live sound has more going on sonically. Can you make a recording sound like a instrument being played live? Not just a representation.

You are going to hear and feel the music differently as the player compared to a person sitting out front. While playing you are also going to have a connection to the instrument itself and to it's sound. So, in those terms listening to a recording is not the same as listening to oneself make music. Also, do you think you are playing the same when you 'play live' versus when you play in front of your recording gear?

However, it's a good goal to be able to get a recording that sounds extremely similar to how the guitar sounds to someone else listening to it being played live.

How are recording your guitar? (mic placement/technique, recording space, recording gear). What's your playback system?

rick-slo · #4 11-23-2016, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Can you make a recording sound like a instrument being played live? Not just a representation.

Exactly the same sound no, but better (IMO) in many ways, yes.

1. Live you are in the active process of playing which has an influence of how you hear.

2. Live your ears are in a certain position relative to the sound source. That will not be duplicated with headphones or a speaker system.

3. Live you have the acoustics of the room (reflections, reverb time).

4. Recorded you have the acoustics of the room during the recording and then the acoustics of the room (perhaps a different room of course) again when listening to the playback (except with headphones for the most part, but see #2 above).

5. Mikes do not pick up sound exactly the same way your ears do (frequency response, location relative to the sound source, etc.).

6. Volume while you are playing live and volume playing back probably don't match.

Not to say that you can't have a recording with a more live sound than you are probably getting so far, but you have the above things (plus no doubt more I have not thought of) to deal with.

KevWind · #5 11-23-2016, 11:34 AM

Agree with what everyone else has said, and again 100% reproduction is a goal of perfection and will not actually be completely attained, but you can get pretty close. And I will add that the other things that have an effect on how close that can be, has also to do with quality of the the room, recording chain, and the playback system.

gfsark · #6 11-23-2016, 12:39 PM

I defer to the experts, but the simple answer is no. A recording is part of the virtual world...it's a representation, as you term it. As rick-slo says, the recording can be better than the live performance, it can be (and often is) worse. It can be really close, but never the same. When does a photograph actually surpass the direct visual experience of the object? In great photos, it often does, but that's the art and technology of the photographer at work. Ditto for recordings.

Mr. Jelly · #7 11-24-2016, 06:27 AM

Thanks for the feedback.

I am using a Shure KSM32 mic set in front of the sound hole directed at the 12th fret. I had a Shure PG58 I used just because I wanted to hear the difference between the two. I did mix in a touch of it. The room has an angled ceiling with some foam and sound deflection.

I'm thinking about somehow increasing the presence and adding more reverb.

How would one increase the presence?

Of coarse this an experiment for learning at this point. I can rerecord this track a million times if I'd like.

KevWind · #8 11-24-2016, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Thanks for the feedback.

I am using a Shure KSM32 mic set in front of the sound hole directed at the 12th fret. I had a Shure PG58 I used just because I wanted to hear the difference between the two. I did mix in a touch of it. The room has an angled ceiling with some foam and sound deflection.

I'm thinking about somehow increasing the presence and adding more reverb.

How would one increase the presence?

Of coarse this an experiment for learning at this point. I can rerecord this track a million times if I'd like.

So to clarify you using two mic's or one ? And are you saying the KSM 32 ( good mic BTW) is out in front of the sound hole but angled to point towards the 12 fret ?
Also if you could list your recording chain, it will make it much more efficient to analyze and make suggestions.
That said:
As far as "presence" in general
As a recording practice (not an unbreakable rule) a mic out in front of the sound hole (may) be picking up some extra bass frequency buildup that (can) be muddy, and another general recording theory is that low frequencies are the ones that are the most prone to have a buildup of mud or slight distortion (not always perceived as such) But distortion is definitely one thing that tends to rob from "presence"

So in terms of increasing presence start with decreasing distortion.
Depending on the situation (subtractive) EQ can very useful in clearing out mud, and thus increasing perceived "presence" a high pass filter and possibly also a slight narrow Q cut on the most problematic frequency in the low end frequency range, from say 600 hz down. And possibly also in the octave double. These are most easily detected by using a selectable multi band EQ that has Q adjustment and is sweepable. Then performing an exaggerated narrow Q sweep untill you hear a definite and obvious hollow honking sound in the lows and unplesent ringing in mids and highs .

Once the the frequency range has been cleaned up then perhaps thinking about compression can be useful for adding presence.
And then perhaps reverb

MikeBmusic · #9 11-28-2016, 09:42 AM

Try some different mic positions - maybe directly in front of the 12th fret, but angled slightly towards the sound hole.

As to 'reverb' - I try to record as 'dry' as possible, then add reverb during mixing. Unless you have a wonderful recording room (i.e. a concert hall!) it can be very difficult to record a good room reverb.

Doug Young · #10 11-28-2016, 10:51 AM

If you're looking for the most effective tips, post an example of what you have now. A lot of times when people feel their recordings lack "presence" it's due to room acoustics. Bad acoustics can smear the sound, make it feel distant and so on. In a properly treated room, the guitar is more direct and present. Room acoustics is the most common issue for home recording

Mr. Jelly · #11 11-28-2016, 12:15 PM

I really appreciate all the help. I guess I'm not really ready to dive in as deep on this subject as some have suggested. I am not prepared to post online as I don't know how and I can't even open some peoples cloud recordings on the forum. I can't even post pictures yet. I'm sure everyone has a better recording set up than I have. I'm running Acid with a sh*t load of waves plug ins. Omni I/O and Event monitors. An out board Behringer compressor and a Shure KSM32 mic. The room is a good size room with an angled ceiling, carpet a couch with some sound foam and diffusers on some parts of the wall. Thanks again for the feed back.

Doug Young · #12 11-28-2016, 04:59 PM

Well, you say you're getting as good a sound as recordings you hear, so it must be working for you! I think you'd be happier with 2 mics, in stereo, and I'd skip the compressor, and be suspicious of too many plugins, but I'm just guessing, and am probably totally wrong.

The original question about capturing the true sound gets philosophical, and you already got a lot of responses there. I was reading something recently about how the people who first heard Edison's early recordings thought the play back sounded exactly like the original source! We know it didn't come close by today's standards, so it all depends on expectations and so on. On a good day, I feel like my recordings come close to sounding like my guitar, maybe in some ways better, but at the same time missing a certain 3-D character that I hear in person. So much depends on the playback system, even my mood - I can think a track sounds good one day, then listen back the next and hate it, or vice versa.