Where am I (musically) ?

[D. Shelton]

Originally Posted by JonPR

I see what you're saying (I think). You're translating what you're picking up into familiar shapes or patterns on the fretboard. (And in your initial post you hadn't yet worked it out, but then you did. )

Trouble is (for us ) you're using theoretical terms in unorthodox ways - hence answers which may be off track from what you're asking.
Eg, if the scale is one set of 7 notes - as it seems to be - and there is just one key centre (as I'm sure there would be in this kind of music) - then there is only one "mode", no matter how many chords you can form from those notes.
Eg, if F is the tonal centre (it might not be), then the mode is F ionian, or "F major key", as it's commonly known. (Regardless of how many chords the piece contains.)
Likewise, if (say) G was the tonal centre, it would be G dorian.
You can obviously play those 7 notes (whatever mode they're used for) in various positions on the neck, but that's not different "modes". Modes are not fret patterns. Or, at least, if you're using mode names for fret patterns (or for chords in a key), that's going to conflict with the other (more correct) meaning of "mode", which is something more like a key (a scale that applies to a whole piece of music, or at least large sections of it).

Not trying to lecture you here : you call things as you like, it's up to you. Just explaining why you're getting answers here that may seem beside the point.

Okay... that's just how I learned how to think of modes . That, within a key , there are 7 modes , each using one of the seven notes as roots . So in that F key , I have F Ionian, Gm Dorian, Am Phryggian, Bb Lydian, etc ; all still using the same set (but different orders) of notes .

As to the Indian fare , it's become more apparent that I'm better off enjoying it at arm's length, without getting into analyzing it

Not that I'm always analyzing what I do. I did spend most of my 2012 guitar time working on a piece strictly by ear and with basic chord structure ; not thinking about keys (which are certainly fluid in it, but I couldn't site details)
or modes . That was a refreshing , liberated way to work, compared to most previous efforts .

I do appreciate everyone's input , and patience with my unorthodox methods

PS : 'Spliced Space Babies' is the guitar piece that "took a year" .
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=113986

(and the EBow noodling was free-form too ; raw noodles , edited )

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by D. Shelton

Okay... that's just how I learned how to think of modes . That, within a key , there are 7 modes , each using one of the seven notes as roots . So in that F key , I have F Ionian, Gm Dorian, Am Phryggian, Bb Lydian, etc ; all still using the same set (but different orders) of notes .

Right. It'd be a good idea to try and unlearn that if you can.
Music is really a whole lot simpler than that.

You can certainly derive modes in that way, but once derived, they're on their own, outside the key. The key itself is one mode: Ionian.

But the main problem with that view is that some people assume each mode has its own fret pattern (you'll find some teaching materal actually tells you that), and they then assume you need to change fret pattern for each chord in a progression. Wrong!
A similar misunderstanding is that you can impose one of those modal "moods" by choosing the appropriate fret pattern. Eg "this is in F major, but I'm going to impose a phrygian mood by using an A phrygian fret pattern". No you ain't! (it will just sound lke F major.)
Or worse, by imposing an F phrygian fret pattern; that will just sound like a load of wrong notes.
IOW, if a song is in F major - it's in the F major key, not a mode (or modes) at all.
(Yes, arguably each chord in a sequence has its own modal sound, from the combination of chord and scale, but there's really no point in knowing that.)

Originally Posted by D. Shelton

As to the Indian fare , it's become more apparent that I'm better off enjoying it at arm's length, without getting into analyzing it

Absolutely! Western music theory simply doesn't have the tools to analyze it anyway. It'd be like trying to unscrew something with a hammer....

Originally Posted by D. Shelton

Not that I'm always analyzing what I do. I did spend most of my 2012 guitar time working on a piece strictly by ear and with basic chord structure ; not thinking about keys (which are certainly fluid in it, but I couldn't site details)
or modes . That was a refreshing , liberated way to work, compared to most previous efforts .

Right again.
"All music is played by ear", as Hal Galper has said. "If you can't hear it, you can't play it."
Music is nothing but sound, in the end. That's how you have to understand it and handle it. All the words are meaningless unless they help you get to the sound - and they're just as likely to take you away from the sound.

[D. Shelton]

Jeepers, no wonder somebody once told me I was learning crap !

Not really though; just harder than it needs to be . (where have I heard that before? )

Might be time to go see my old instructor in the big city (not the one I learned this from!)

Coolness.