Yamaha solid vs laminate: FG830 vs A3R

[JackB1]

Ok so while at my local Sam Ash today I did a little experiment comparing Only the sound of the FG830 with laminate back and sides, with the all solid A3R. Both have spruce tops. These guitars are about $600 apart in their selling prices. I played both back and forth several times and also asked another guy to do the same while I listened with my eyes closed. Now I am sure there are other differences, but I was amazed at how hard it was to tell them apart just from the sound. I think the differences are very subtle and I don't think an all solid guitar is going to make a huge difference just in sound alone. I also played other more expensive guitars and found that a high quality laminate can sound almost as good as any solid body guitar. Anyone who doubts this needs to go do their own comparison tests.

[Matt McGriff]

I’d say the real value in the solid back and sides is that supposedly they will age and “open up” over the course of time making the sound more rich and complex while the laminate will be more static as it ages. Both tops will of course open up, so they will both benefit from aging and being played. Of course this is hotly debated but if you like the sound of a laminate guitar at time zero, you are good to go! A lot of people love the FG830 so you certainly can’t go wrong with one.

[rmgjsps]

I can't speak to the specific guitars you are asking about, but I started thinking differently about "laminate" sides and backs when I started to consider them as "engineered materials." It's very easy to poo-poo laminates as "plywood" or as if it were paneling for your den. But engineered materials are engineered for a specific purpose to exhibit specific properties, and to perform in particular ways. At the very low end, I am sure that the laminates used in guitars can be pretty low quality, but still probably perform better than really low end solids. Once you climb the price scale even a little bit, the engineered materials also climb in quality. I don't think that the laminate sides and back of my La Patrie detract from the quality of the instrument at all.

Play the guitars and find ones you like. Worry about solids vs. engineered laminates later out of curiosity.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Matt McGriff

I’d say the real value in the solid back and sides is that supposedly they will age and “open up” over the course of time making the sound more rich and complex while the laminate will be more static as it ages. Both tops will of course open up, so they will both benefit from aging and being played. Of course this is hotly debated but if you like the sound of a laminate guitar at time zero, you are good to go! A lot of people love the FG830 so you certainly can’t go wrong with one.

I agree. There are many other factors in the solid vs laminate debate, but in the under $1,000 guitar market, solid or laminate back and sides shouldn't weight too heavily in your decision making process.

[Blueser100]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Ok so while at my local Sam Ash today I did a little experiment comparing Only the sound of the FG830 with laminate back and sides, with the all solid A3R. Both have spruce tops. These guitars are about $600 apart in their selling prices. I played both back and forth several times and also asked another guy to do the same while I listened with my eyes closed. Now I am sure there are other differences, but I was amazed at how hard it was to tell them apart just from the sound. I think the differences are very subtle and I don't think an all solid guitar is going to make a huge difference just in sound alone. I also played other more expensive guitars and found that a high quality laminate can sound almost as good as any solid body guitar. Anyone who doubts this needs to go do their own comparison tests.

I agree. My old vintage Yamaha FG-150 was gorgeous sounding and rivaled my mahogany Martin 000-15. It played better than many all solid guitars I compared it to. Ever since, I’ve never discounted a laminate guitar and have sometimes chosen them over solid. I love my FS800 and it gets more playing time than my Martins.

[Trevor A]

Hi there, Greetings from New Zealand, I have a nice A1m and apart from lowering the action, the only other mod, was to change the plastic bridge pins and re- fit Tusq pins. I re-drilled the holes and the sound has improved albeit very subtle.
I have an FG180 and a G255S classical, but the biggest difference for me is the wider string spacing at the bridge on the A1m which is just great.
Does anyone know if the A3m preamp will fit straight into an A1m, there is a company called Full Compass who sell the A3m preamp and although I have e-mailed them requesting dimensions, I have not had a reply.
Thanks.
Cheers - Trevor.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Trevor A

Hi there, Greetings from New Zealand, I have a nice A1m and apart from lowering the action, the only other mod, was to change the plastic bridge pins and re- fit Tusq pins. I re-drilled the holes and the sound has improved albeit very subtle.
I have an FG180 and a G255S classical, but the biggest difference for me is the wider string spacing at the bridge on the A1m which is just great.
Does anyone know if the A3m preamp will fit straight into an A1m, there is a company called Full Compass who sell the A3m preamp and although I have e-mailed them requesting dimensions, I have not had a reply.
Thanks.
Cheers - Trevor.

Hi Trevor, the A3M and A1M have System 63 SRT and System 66 installed respectively. They appear to share the same footprint so should be interchangeable. This is according to my Yamaha catalogue, and I'm working from pictures only. You could try calling Yamaha customer service and ask; I recently had a long chat with them on an unrelated subject and found them both knowledgeable and very helpful.

[Rpt50]

You can save even more money and go with the FG 800, if you can do without the bling.

[Guildman]

Local pawn shop has an FG830 for under 300 so I'm guessing the other is 8-900. I totally agree with the poster that laminate vs solid is not even part of the decision with these two, save yourself 600 and if the cat throws it out of a window you won't fret too much. In the meantime you'll have a nice player.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Guildman

Local pawn shop has an FG830 for under 300 so I'm guessing the other is 8-900. I totally agree with the poster that laminate vs solid is not even part of the decision with these two, save yourself 600 and if the cat throws it out of a window you won't fret too much. In the meantime you'll have a nice player.

Yamaha does make amazing sounding guitars for very little money. We as guitar players are fortunate to have something available for $300 or less that can pretty much stand up to most other more expensive Taylor's and Yamaha's.

I think the difference between all solid and solid top with lam back / sides gets overblown by a lot of folks here on the boards. Anyone that doesn't believe me, I invite them to do the same experiment I did. I got caught up in the hype myself and was expecting a waaaaay different sounding instrument when I went to a all solid, but it's not really all that much different, if it all.

[ADG]

While my comment is not limited to the back and sides issue, I'll offer it up anyway. I've had 2 yamaha's a fg730 and a LL16. I found a notably woodier resonance in the LL16 ARE . The highs were less shrill with longer sustain (particularly on the G string). Is that due to the solid rosewood back and sides? That is not clear to me. The LL16 is englemann spruce and the 730 is Sitka. While they both have a bright Yamaha sound, they are order of magnitudes different instruments. I don't think I have a particularly gifted ear.

[InTune]

Is the A3R that you're looking at the new model with the ARE top? It has three knobs for preamp controls? If so, and you think it sounds so close to the 830 then the 830 is better than I thought. My 830 is on a hanger in my living room and gets played often and I don't worry about it if company wants to play it. I also have the A3R but it was the pre ARE version.. it sounds really good acoustically but I'd still give the edge to the 830. Plugged in and amplified is where the A series really shines, has one of the finest sounding preamps I've ever heard. The LL16r is in a different league acoustically IMO, I've had people say it compares to a Martin d28 but personally I wouldn't go that far, and the passive pickup is OK. I'd say that if you don't plan to plug in very often go for the 830 or look to the L series. If you're not plugging in then having the A3R with that amazing preamp might not be worth the extra money but if you want to play live or record plugged in then the A series is the way to go.

[Taylorfanguy]

Having owned a 700 series (two, actually) for several years, playing the 800 series curled my toes. They really improved on an already fantastic guitar with their new bracing. I might get one just because. the a3m/a3r have really nice preamps and are great values too, but acoustically they didn't impress me. I went shopping for one of these when my current FGX720SCA had its preamp short out. That was before I got into Martin guitars. I ended up finding a really cheap 700 and just swapped the preamps out so now my 720 has a working preamp again. And my 700 is just a beat-around take-to-the-lake guitar.

I say 800 series. Either way, it's a yamaha. Cannot go wrong.

[Guildman]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Yamaha does make amazing sounding guitars for very little money. We as guitar players are fortunate to have something available for $300 or less that can pretty much stand up to most other more expensive Taylor's and Yamaha's.

I think the difference between all solid and solid top with lam back / sides gets overblown by a lot of folks here on the boards. Anyone that doesn't believe me, I invite them to do the same experiment I did. I got caught up in the hype myself and was expecting a waaaaay different sounding instrument when I went to a all solid, but it's not really all that much different, if it all.

It's a subjective subject in many ways with so much available.
Since we can't play everything its just a way of putting a criteria that says "if I stick to all solid I'll more likely get a higher quality instrument" if that makes sense. Disregarding price, that is my sentiment anyway and has worked pretty well.

[Mystery123]

I met a guy who is a vox/lead in local band.
He uses a solid top Takamine acoustic electric.
Something EAN model.
It retailed for over $1500 so some laminate back and sides guitars do cost a lot depending upon build and brand.