Sipo vs Mahogany

[arwhite]

I suspect my CEO7 is Sipo. It looks very different than the mahogany on my 2016 D18. Has more of that "ribbony" look to the grain. Whatever it is, I like it! It sounds great on this CEO7.

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by arwhite

I suspect my CEO7 is Sipo. It looks very different than the mahogany on my 2016 D18. Has more of that "ribbony" look to the grain. Whatever it is, I like it! It sounds great on this CEO7.

I think my 000-17SM is Spanish cedar. Visually, it's pretty bland. Tonally it's wonderful...but the real difference is that when you play the guitar you're in the middle of a cloud of wonderful cigar box aromas that extend well beyond the soundhole. I swear I can smell my Martin on the stand from across the room sometimes.

[madhat]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I want to think that is Marketing mumbo-jumbo.
I would have to compare two identical guitars with the two different woods and even then it wouldn't really prove anything.

I have done just this comparison.

As an example- I think there is good reason why Taylor uses actual mahogany top over Sapele back/sides- the finished product comes out way less harsh on the ears.... I have owned Sapele guitars with both Spruce and Sapele tops. I have also owned and still own Sipo.

One big factor would be build/builder though.

All the best
madhat.

[Sagebrush Tom]

So when Taylor Guitars says it's Tropical Mahogany, That's being more up front than Martin or other makers?

Tom

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Sagebrush Tom

So when Taylor Guitars says it's Tropical Mahogany, That's being more up front than Martin or other makers?

Tom

When Taylor says what is tropical mahogany?

As far as I know, when Taylor calls it mahogany, it's mahogany. If it's sapele, they call it sapele. OTOH, I understand Martin calls it mahogany whether it's sipo, sapele, khaya, Spanish cedar or mahogany. Only when they call it "genuine mahogany" can you be sure you're actually getting genuine mahogany.

[TokyoNeko]

On the specs of each guitars on the Martin website...

If it says "Genuine Mahogany," then that's a sure bet that it's "Swietenia macrophylla," the real stuff.

If it says "Mahogany," then it could be Sipo, Khaya, Spanish Cedar, etc.

That's no reflection on the quality of the instrument. It only refers to the species of wood used, no more and no less.

[Sagebrush Tom]

Originally Posted by Swamp Yankee

When Taylor says what is tropical mahogany?

As far as I know, when Taylor calls it mahogany, it's mahogany. If it's sapele, they call it sapele. OTOH, I understand Martin calls it mahogany whether it's sipo, sapele, khaya, Spanish cedar or mahogany. Only when they call it "genuine mahogany" can you be sure you're actually getting genuine mahogany.

If you want to know what "Tropical Mahogany" is, then go to Taylor's website. It's theirs and other makers term, not mine.

Tom

[Truckjohn]

It depends on the wood you have in your hands..

The average Sapele I have worked tends to be a little more hard and more dense than the average honduras mahogany I have worked. To my ears - the Sapele tends to behave more like the really hard dense mahogany... To my ears more like cuban mahogany than honduras mahogany... Probably blasphemy I am sure - but that's my impression..

The wood sellers have figured this out that there is a distinct market for sapele - and now sell it in a different stack than "African mahogany"...

[Mr Fingers]

Of course every guitar can be different, and some are outliers, but in general there are differences between these woods, including tonal differences. I think there's a difference between much of today's real mahogany and older real mahogany, too; it may even be greater than the difference between all the species discussed on the thread.
How evident those differences are, and whether you actually have a preference, is another story. For a long time, I went with the "rosewood is best" (?) generalization until I had played so many guitars that I could say for myself, "maybe for you guys, but it's mahogany for me." What I find contemptible is Martin's practice of obfuscation. Since they are a mass production facility, they cut costs wherever possible, and so saving a few seconds of computer time to track what real wood species has been used for a "mahogany" guitar, so that the buyer knows, is, along with deliberately confusing the market by suggesting a false equivalency among woods, is apparently a higher priority. I wouldn't over-exaggerate the difference between these woods -- many could care less -- but the word games are pathetic.

[Dronfield]

Hi

Sorry to confuse matters, but my Guild M-140 is built out of South African mahogany, can anyone please tell me what this is most likely to be, i.e. Sipo, sapele etc?

The guitar back wood is noticeably striped - bit of an orangy tint to it.

Many thanks for your help here.

Rich

[Long Jon]

One crucial difference is that EVERYBODY , not just guitarists, has heard of Mahogany , it is one properly famous wood...

Try asking a hundred people what "sipo" is , or even "sapele" see how many have a clue.

Who even knows how yer supposed to pronounce 'em ?

[arwhite]

Originally Posted by Swamp Yankee

I think my 000-17SM is Spanish cedar. Visually, it's pretty bland. Tonally it's wonderful...but the real difference is that when you play the guitar you're in the middle of a cloud of wonderful cigar box aromas that extend well beyond the soundhole. I swear I can smell my Martin on the stand from across the room sometimes.

Sweet. I wish my CEO7 smelled like that.

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by arwhite

Sweet. I wish my CEO7 smelled like that.

I hear you - if I could learn to tell the Spanish cedar "M" Martins by sight in the pictures on Reverb, I'd be in trouble.

[roylor4]

I have never has a guitar with a "true" or "genuine" Mahogany top.

I have owned two with Sapele tops and they were night and day. I had an Eastman for close to two years - an AC-OM2 and it always sounded like it was stuffed full of socks. Never shoulda bought it. My cheap AC240 sounded 5x better on day one than the Eastman did after 1.5 years.

I think the builder is a HUGE component in the tone and perhaps even more so with a denser wood like Mahogany and it's variants.

I don't think I could sonically tell a Mahogany from a Sipo from a Sapele topped guitar.

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

Try asking a hundred people what "sipo" is , or even "sapele" see how many have a clue.

Who even knows how yer supposed to pronounce 'em ?

I guess it's relative...

I'd say "SEEpo" and "saPAYlee" respectively.

But if I worked for C.F. Martin, I'd pronounce them as "mahHOGany" and "mahHOGany", respectively