Pickups.

mpbounds · #1 02-20-2017, 05:52 PM

I am looking for an inexpensive way to amplify my sound for a few situations, mostly in church situations with a small band type atmosphere. I'm looking for something I don't need to make many holes to my guitar (end pin is about it) and I don't want it to change my acoustic sound really. I'm really looking at the JJB 330 prestige but with the passive system I'm not sure where to go for a preamp. With $50 for the JJB 330 I'd need to stay under $80 for a preamp. Any suggestions out there?

Seagull S6 Original
Fender CD-140 Mahogany

Mandobart · #2 02-20-2017, 06:25 PM

I'm a big fan of JJB under soundboard/bridge plate mounted pickups. I've installed them in about 15 instruments (most of them archtops - fiddles, mandolin family instruments, and also in 3 flattop guitars). I've also installed K&K pu's and they are good as well, just cost more than JJB.

The truth about all piezo pickups is they have a high output impedance. Unless you are plugging into a HI Z input on a PA or acoustic amp, you need a preamp or DI to match that high output impedance with the low input impedance of the PA. Aside from the fiction and folklore I read on this forum about humidity, the purpose of a preamp for a piezo pu is the greatest technical misconception I routinely observe. Sure, many players claim " my pickup is so hot I don't need a preamp" and they plug straight in without it and it sounds fine to them. Maybe they have a HI Z input. Maybe they don't hear any "piezo quack" or maybe they are able to EQ it out. I have never had a decent DI/preamp hurt my tone.

I have a Behringer ADI21 that I gigged with for a few years. I still use it as a spare/loaner. It works fine and is priced pretty reasonably. I now use a RedEye, but that costs close to $200. A good middle ground that I still use sometimes is the K&K Pure. Nice to have some volume and EQ control right on your belt.

When I play solo gigs thru my Carvin AG300 I don't use any preamp - I just engage the HI Z on the input channel. I truly can't hear a difference between that and using my RedEye. But if I do use the preamp, again it doesn't hurt the tone. And usually when plugging into a house PA I absolutely need the preamp to prevent the harsh sound resulting from an impedance mis-match at the input.

roylor4 · #3 02-20-2017, 06:35 PM

I use a JJB Prestige 330 and a Behringer ADI21 as mentioned by Mandobart. Probably better preamps out there, but ours get the job done and sound pretty good to boot.

I DO think they sound better using the DI output (XLR) into a source but they work pretty well with 1/4" or xlr.

The Bard Rocks · #4 02-20-2017, 06:39 PM

OK, you don't want something invasive and you want your sound to be natural and at it's best. I have just the thing for you, it's a 4 letter word - "mike". Fairly cheap, no installation cost, widely regarded as the best sound, and the only hole in your instrument will be its soundhole or soundport if you have one of them.

Putting this question out to the acoustic amplification page might get you many good replies.

Doug Young · #5 02-20-2017, 07:06 PM

deleted, oops...

martingitdave · #6 02-20-2017, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

This is all about expectations. Most people have no idea you can play the guitar without singing, which can make instrumentals a bit awkward in many cases. In the right setting, you can be appreciated, and people will enjoy the music. In the wrong setting they won't enjoy it, and you won't be comfortable. It can be challenging, precisely because the image of someone singing with a guitar is so strong. Even when I've told people I play *instrumental* guitar, even when they've heard my CDs, they are often surprised when I don't sing. I guess they think all the CD tracks without vocals was just an oversight :-)

So I'd suggest 1) finding out what they expect, and 2) do some soul-searching about what your interests and goals are. Since you do both - sing and play, you can always mix them up to accommodate what you think an audience wants. If you have enough material, you can adjust on the fly. I once attended a concert/interactive workshop with Phil Keaggy, who does both, tho I greatly prefer his instrumental work. He came out, played a couple of incredible instrumentals, and people clapped politely. Then he sang a song, and and crowd went wild. He said, "Ah, I get it, you're song people", and spent the rest of the night doing vocal tunes, much to my dismay. But he read the audience and adapted to what they wanted. Of course, he was still Phil, still doing his own music, and playing plenty of guitar as well, he just biased the show toward what he thought people were enjoying the most. If you can do that (and are willing), it's a great asset.

Doug you may have posted in the wrong thread. Good advice however.

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Doug Young · #7 02-20-2017, 07:18 PM

yes, I did... Hmm, how'd I do that? :-)

Pitar · #8 02-20-2017, 07:19 PM

https://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Electr.../dp/B000EEL4BQ

You might need a preamp, you might not. I used this p'up for years. You can place it where you want to to get the tone that suits your ear. It mounts with an inert, removable putty-like adhesive that does not affect the finish. I used one for years on a Guild F-412, not that it really needed amplification, but it sounded pretty good. I didn't use a preamp.

kcnbys · #9 02-20-2017, 07:20 PM

I've used the JJB 330 in several guitars, and depending on what your plugging into, you may not need a preamp at all. For instance, if you're going directly into an amp, you really don't need a preamp. If you're running into a PA, I'd suggest you find a used K&K Pure XLR preamp, which you may be able to get in your price range. They often come up for sale here on the forum. They are very nice, and will give you just what you need.

Neil K Walk · #10 02-20-2017, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpbounds

I am looking for an inexpensive way to amplify my sound for a few situations, mostly in church situations with a small band type atmosphere. I'm looking for something I don't need to make many holes to my guitar (end pin is about it) and I don't want it to change my acoustic sound really. I'm really looking at the JJB 330 prestige but with the passive system I'm not sure where to go for a preamp. With $50 for the JJB 330 I'd need to stay under $80 for a preamp. Any suggestions out there?

Seagull S6 Original
Fender CD-140 Mahogany

What is the makeup of your church's band? Are there amplified electric instruments or drums?

FWIW I have two guitars that I use in church. One has a K&K PWM, the other a JJB Prestige 330. We don't have a drummer or any electric instruments (we're solely guitars and singers) so a preamp isn't even necessary.

llew · #11 02-20-2017, 08:42 PM

I use McIntyre Feathers (GF-30) and JJB-330 passive bridge plate transducers in my guitars. Both are typically "hot" enough to plug straight into an acoustic amp but a pre amp or DI box is needed with our PA. The JJB-330 is a great value IMO.

a-cue-stick · #12 02-20-2017, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

OK, you don't want something invasive and you want your sound to be natural and at it's best. I have just the thing for you, it's a 4 letter word - "mike". Fairly cheap, no installation cost, widely regarded as the best sound, and the only hole in your instrument will be its soundhole or soundport if you have one of them.

Putting this question out to the acoustic amplification page might get you many good replies.

I can say you're probably right, but where have you ever played where this is a reasonable way to go? I would love to sit in front of a nice condenser mic and just play and sing. The reality is that it's almost impossible to do it in most real-world settings. Too much noise and commotion going on and you're asking for a feedback nightmare that you personally have no control over.

It's a lovely sound, but by the time you EQ and notch all the feedback frequencies out, you might as well plug in.

mpbounds · #13 02-20-2017, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwakatak

What is the makeup of your church's band? Are there amplified electric instruments or drums?

FWIW I have two guitars that I use in church. One has a K&K PWM, the other a JJB Prestige 330. We don't have a drummer or any electric instruments (we're solely guitars and singers) so a preamp isn't even necessary.

Usually it is another guitar and singers. We have also had a dembe drum (not sure of the spelling) and a Bass guitar sometimes. In most instances we don't even need it but with all of us we need a little amplification is needed and the mic setups are not as feesable as pickup would be. I think I will need a preamp. What is a good cheap one out there that I can use until I can afford a decent one?

Seagull S6 Original
Fender CD-140 Mahogany

martingitdave · #14 02-20-2017, 09:24 PM

Haven't read the whole thread but if you're looking for simple and cheap, a soundhole pickup is the way to go. Most everything else costs more money and requires holes.

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Mandobart · #15 02-20-2017, 09:25 PM

Following up on the use of a "mike" ("mic" is the correct shorthand for microphone). A condenser mic is not going to work on some live stages for a variety of reasons. But people have been mic-ing instruments for decades with dynamic mics like the good old SM57. One of these plus a chord and boom stand can often be found for about $100. Another more affordable option that is non-invasive and sounds decent is a soundhole pickup as Dave suggested above. I used an earlier version of one of these on my first few gigs when I started playing out again about 9 years ago. Works fine with bronze strings, doesn't need a preamp.