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  #1  
Old 02-01-2017, 12:13 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Default Is Rainsongs new product offering saying something?

The growth market is cheaper carbon guitars. The market for higher end carbon guitars is just very limited. The vast majority of people think alternative materials should mean lower price points. You can argue against it but it's just the way it is.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:26 PM
MikeMcKee MikeMcKee is offline
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Well, the timing was perfect for me. I needed to get a smaller travel guitar and wanted CF. I have no need for electronics, and preferred a gig bag for transporting. So, the new Parlor offering in this form at $1299 was a no brainer. Just got the guitar and am very pleased. Exactly what I was looking for. Now, in my case I needed one now, and if this new release hadn't been available I more thank likely would have put out the $1800 for the previous version and picked up a gig bag. But, I feel much better about the purchase as it turned out. Great little travel guitar. And, thanks to Ted for the recommendation.
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:42 PM
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Production of cf guitars could be coming down in price due to an economy of scale, new production methods, and better understanding of materials. That doesn't mean that there will not be models at higher price points.
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Old 02-01-2017, 05:33 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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I think it says "Buy me!"
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:54 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by kramster View Post
I think it says "Buy me!"
Exactly!


Steve, I'm not certain cheaper carbon guitars are a growth market, but a more affordable option of a venerable US brand like Rainsong will certainly get more players looking at CF. When I got my first Rainsong almost 20-years ago, the price was over 2K, which is close to 3K in 2017 dollars. Today Rainsong is in a position to offer a few models at entry level pricing that give up nothing in performance, so why not go after that market share? Works for Martin and Taylor. I doubt someone thinking about a Black Ice OM 12-fret will switch to the CH-OM, but a working musician thinking about a Mexican Taylor 214ce Deluxe, or a Martin Road Series, can now consider a worry free US made Rainsong instead.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:48 PM
Matt McGriff Matt McGriff is offline
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That new offering (the CH WS) inspired me to email Ted! Need another bulletproof stage guitar and of course the Rainsongs fit the bill. I play a Taylor 710 now with an Anthem and it sounds incredible. Loving the idea of the CH WS with the onboard Anthem. Also loving the thought of short scale, 12 fret. Man!!!
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:51 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Need another bulletproof stage guitar and of course the Rainsongs fit the bill.
Matt, you are the man..
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:55 PM
Matt McGriff Matt McGriff is offline
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I'll be calling you soon!
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:42 PM
NoodleFingers NoodleFingers is offline
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I think all types of carbon fiber guitars are a growth market. But because guitars have been made out of wood for literally hundreds of years, I think it's true that the best thing for this burgeoning market is to get carbon fiber guitars in front of as many people as possible.

The woods we use for guitars were chosen for very specific reasons—because they are light, stiff and strong. That's what produces good resonance. Carbon fiber is lighter, stiffer, and stronger than any wood could ever be. In many ways, it is an ideal material. But because it is so much lighter and stiffer and stronger than wood, it sounds somewhat different. Guitar design has been wood-centric for centuries. It will take some time to expose people to this new material, as well as to figure out the best ways to use it.

Instruments called guitars have been around for 800 years. Chordophones (stringed instruments like guitars, lutes and bouzoukis) have been around for more than 3000 years. Carbon fiber guitars have been around for 30 years. I think they have achieved amazing success and market penetration in a very short amount of time.

Unfortunately, as a new technology, carbon fiber materials are still very expensive. So I think RainSong has done a great thing finding a way to get more carbon fiber guitars into the hands of more players. I also think it's a very smart business decision.

I would never want to not have any wood guitars. But I would also never want to not have any carbon fiber guitars, either.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:22 AM
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Acousticado Acousticado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodleFingers View Post
I think all types of carbon fiber guitars are a growth market. But because guitars have been made out of wood for literally hundreds of years, I think it's true that the best thing for this burgeoning market is to get carbon fiber guitars in front of as many people as possible.

The woods we use for guitars were chosen for very specific reasons—because they are light, stiff and strong. That's what produces good resonance. Carbon fiber is lighter, stiffer, and stronger than any wood could ever be. In many ways, it is an ideal material. But because it is so much lighter and stiffer and stronger than wood, it sounds somewhat different. Guitar design has been wood-centric for centuries. It will take some time to expose people to this new material, as well as to figure out the best ways to use it.

Instruments called guitars have been around for 800 years. Chordophones (stringed instruments like guitars, lutes and bouzoukis) have been around for more than 3000 years. Carbon fiber guitars have been around for 30 years. I think they have achieved amazing success and market penetration in a very short amount of time.

Unfortunately, as a new technology, carbon fiber materials are still very expensive. So I think RainSong has done a great thing finding a way to get more carbon fiber guitars into the hands of more players. I also think it's a very smart business decision.

I would never want to not have any wood guitars. But I would also never want to not have any carbon fiber guitars, either.
In my opinion, this is a great, intelligent post...one of the best I've read in a long time about the state of the situation. Thanks for this. I will only add that I find the term "carbon fiber" to be a bit limiting. I prefer "composite" to encompass a range of in-use and emerging materials (e.g. ekoa linen ala Blackbird) and innovative, flexible design approaches (e.g. Emerald).
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:17 PM
NoodleFingers NoodleFingers is offline
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... I will only add that I find the term "carbon fiber" to be a bit limiting. I prefer "composite" to encompass a range of in-use and emerging materials (e.g. ekoa linen ala Blackbird) and innovative, flexible design approaches (e.g. Emerald).
That's a really great point. Just like wood was the only material for many years with the right qualities to make guitars, for decades carbon fiber has been the only composite with those qualities. But not any more.

Ekoa is a tremendously exciting development, and I can't wait to see what's coming as makers start incorporating new types of natural fibers (bamboo and hemp come to mind) as well as new resins to create a broad range of new composites with different sonic qualities.
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Old 02-02-2017, 05:13 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Agreed. I've owned a Rainsong WS-1000 for 16 years now, and was very impressed with the eKoa instruments I was able to play last spring. Nice woody tone, and also looks a lot like wood. And eKoa is only the beginning....

Airplanes were originally wood and fabric because that yielded the lightest and strongest structure at that time. Then came aluminum skins and frames. Now many parts are made of carbon fiber and other composites, both commercial airplanes like the Boeing 787 and for home-built experimental aircraft.

For anyone that is interested, I believe that Blackbird will again have a booth at the Reno Uke Fest on April 06-09. This festival is where I first met Joe and got to play the entire product line. I nearly went home with the demo El Capitan in eKoa, and ultimately ended up ordering a Lucky 13. I'll be there again.
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www.ukulele.cafe/reno2017
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:37 PM
studioman001 studioman001 is offline
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I think this is a great development and will hopefully bring more people into the cf instrument world.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:58 AM
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Have you guys seen the styrofoam cello (video below)? Louder and easier to play than standard, wood cellos and sounds wonderful. Styrofoam guitars anyone??

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.en...News/1.2362321
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:27 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Have you guys seen the styrofoam cello (video below)? Louder and easier to play than standard, wood cellos and sounds wonderful. Styrofoam guitars anyone??

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.en...News/1.2362321
If I had seen that piece 5 years ago, I might laugh it off. Now, seeing, playing and owning guitars that are not the traditional wood offerings, I am more open to exploring the possibilities.
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