Key of D ?

[djh1765]

In guitar music theory is the key of D# the same as Eb ?

This has alway's confused me.

[Karaokemonk]

They are enharmonic if that is what you mean.

[jrs146]

The key of D# is more of a theoretical major scale. You won't see it used because of the double sharps associated with the key. If a composer wanted to use the key of D# they would just write it in the key of Eb.

This is why you won't find D# on the circle of fifths.

So to answer your question, yes the notes are the same and in the same order. They are enharmonic.


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For our purposes - Yup!

[FwL]

Originally Posted by jrs146

The key of D# is more of a theoretical major scale. You won't see it used because of the double sharps associated with the key. If a composer wanted to use the key of D# they would just write it in the key of Eb.

This is why you won't find D# on the circle of fifths.

So to answer your question, yes the notes are the same and in the same order. They are enharmonic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What you say is only true at a very basic level. In the real world it is not at all uncommon to run into double sharps and double flats. This is especially true when modulation is involved. In that case the previous key and the key that follows could dictate the use of D sharp rather than E flat.

Working with transposing instruments can also necessitate using the more remote keys with double sharps of double flats.

Another common use is dealing with borrowed chords and chord substitutions in jazz and classical.

There is also the case of chord extensions requiring double accidentals . A case in point would be the C dimished 7th chord spelled C Eb Gb Bbb.

So although it's easier to work with Eb instead of D# within in a limited context (circle of fifths for example) you don't have to travel very far outside of that to run into the non-basic stuff.
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[djh1765]

Thank you,
I have a computer program that identifies the chord a song is in and it indicates the D# chord at times.
In chording the song it always is an Eb.
I hope I'm making sense to you.
On the chord charts if you fret D but capo the 1st fret it shows to be a Eb. I can't even find a D# on the chord charts.

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

I wish I had started this guitar stuff about 70 years ago.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by jrs146

The key of D# is more of a theoretical major scale. You won't see it used because of the double sharps associated with the key. If a composer wanted to use the key of D# they would just write it in the key of Eb.
This is why you won't find D# on the circle of fifths.

That's true. Double sharp notation that may arise with the use of accidental notes is one thing (say ##F in the key of A major), a key requiring a double sharp as one of the diatonic notes is another.

[FwL]

Originally Posted by djh1765

Thank you,
I have a computer program that identifies the chord a song is in and it indicates the D# chord at times.
In chording the song it always is an Eb.
I hope I'm making sense to you.
On the chord charts if you fret D but capo the 1st fret it shows to be a Eb. I can't even find a D# on the chord charts.

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

I wish I had started this guitar stuff about 70 years ago.

In basic songs it's easier to work in the key of Eb rather than D#.

One of the basic rules of a key is that each note name is used only once.

If you spell out D# you get D# E# F## G# A# B# C##

If you spell out Eb instead you get Eb F G Ab Bb C D

The second is a lot easier to deal with.

So all things being equal you'd probably never see D# used as a key in a basic song.

If you spell out all the other keys you get the same thing here and there. Some are just ugly.

The common keys used are:

A Bb B C Db D Eb E F F#/Gb G Ab

With F# and Gb you get the same amount of ugly either way.


Now that goes for keys. As far as individual chords go the key dictates how a chord is named. You won't find a D# major chord because none of the commonly used keys would name it that way. It would be named Eb. Other chords do double duty as X# or Yb but not the good ol' Eb chord.
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[JonPR]

Originally Posted by djh1765

Thank you,
I have a computer program that identifies the chord a song is in and it indicates the D# chord at times.

Moral: don't trust computer programs to give you correct theoretical information! Algorithms don't care (and can't tell) which enharmonic is correct.

A D# (major) chord is only correct if the key is G# minor. D# is then the V chord - and contains Fx, F double sharp, because the harmonic minor scale raises the 7th, which is F#. (And we can't call it G, because that would break the "one of each note" rule; which applies to letters, not pitches.)