Eastman Guitars no longer stamped Made in China!

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by ewalling

In enough people's minds, isn't that the case? By all accounts, an Eastman all-solid archtop will compare very favorably with a Gibson part-laminate, and yet the Gibson commands a king's ransom relative to the Eastman. A significant number of people clearly do believe that 'Made in America' = better.

I'm referring to what is literally true, not what people believe to be true. Simply believing something doesn't make it true. And I'm not arguing that a fair number of people don't believe that.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

You're acting like the place of manufacture is important to most people. While "Made in USA" is very important to some people, the fact is most people couldn't care less. "Made in USA" hasn't meant it was better for a very long time.

Where a product was made is of concernto most people. Watches made in Switzerland, shoes made in Italy, and guitars made in the US carry a premium for good reason.

[Legolas1971]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

I never said that no one cared.

And how do you know its the place of manufacture that specifically affects resale value, and not a myriad of other things, like its sound and playability? Is there a case of otherwise identical guitars made in different countries that I am not aware of?

Agreed, you actually said this:

"Made in USA" is very important to some people, the fact is most people couldn't care less. "Made in USA" hasn't meant it was better for a very long time."

All I'm saying is when it comes to acoustic guitars USA made is important to me. Place of manufacture absolutely affects resale value. That's why Martin, Collings, Huss & Dalton, etc...command such high resale values.

2 years ago I tried to trade my Alvarez Yairi DYM95SB for a Martin at The Music Emporium in Massachusetts. The person I spoke to said that they didn't want to even do a deal because I'd be very upset over the trade value. They said that there are many good foreign guitar makers but as far as trade and re-sale values go US made trumps them all.

This is not to downgrade other guitar makers outside of the US; it's just the way the market is.

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

Where a product was made is of concernto most people. Watches made in Switzerland, shoes made in Italy, and guitars made in the US carry a premium for good reason.

It isn't of concern to most people.

Most people of whom it is of concern to belong to the baby boomer generation. They are currently the most well to do generation. Hence why the products you mentioned carry a premium. But the boomers aren't representative of the whole population.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

You're acting like the place of manufacture is important to most people. While "Made in USA" is very important to some people, the fact is most people couldn't care less. "Made in USA" hasn't meant it was better for a very long time.

Nothing could be farther from the truth and especially regarding guitars.

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by Legolas1971

Agreed, you actually said this:

"Made in USA" is very important to some people, the fact is most people couldn't care less. "Made in USA" hasn't meant it was better for a very long time."

All I'm saying is when it comes to acoustic guitars USA made is important to me. Place of manufacture absolutely affects resale value. That's why Martin, Collings, Huss & Dalton, etc...command such high resale values.

2 years ago I tried to trade my Alvarez Yairi DYM95SB for a Martin at The Music Emporium in Massachusetts. The person I spoke to said that they didn't want to even do a deal because I'd be very upset over the trade value. They said that there are many good foreign guitar makers but as far as trade and re-sale values go US made trumps them all.

This is not to downgrade other guitar makers outside of the US; it's just the way the market is.

I was simply asking for proof for your assertion that it is only the place of manufacture that affects resale value. It simply seems to me that things like the sound and quality of the guitar, the trust in a more established name, the playability of a guitar, etc., would have a larger affect on the resale value. Correlation has never meant causation.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

It isn't of concern to most people.

Most people of whom it is of concern to belong to the baby boomer generation. They are currently the most well to do generation. Hence why the products you mentioned carry a premium. But the boomers aren't representative of the whole population.

I sell stuff for a living, what do you do?

[Mickey_C]

To Be Clear:

The last thing in the world I want to see is Made in China items not labeled such and Made in USA items not labeled such.

But if the courts are actually standing behind this nonsense to the point that the Made in USA label is going to be removed from Martin, as the definition of goods origin of manufacturing is now based on component origin, then Eastman guitars should have the Made in China label removed too, whether they like it or not. And if they really want it back, they can sell us guitars with all Chinese woods.

**** OR *****

Some federal court justices can pull their heads out of their backsides.

Other casualties:

All consumer electronics. 100% of consumer electronic companies, they are stuffed full of non-US made parts.

All automobiles 100% of car companies. Electronics parts are not US made.

WHOEVER SAID THIS IS PROTECTING US MADE GOODS IS DELUDED.

It's about erasing americanism, nothing more. Because there will be nothing that can be labeled Made in USA. Except maybe a couple firearms, and you can't buy those in CA anyhow.

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

Nothing could be farther from the truth and especially regarding guitars.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

But a "made in the USA" stamp doesn't automatically make it better. Quality parts and skilled labor, among other things, is what makes a product better.

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by patchmcg

Maybe not triple, but removing that particular stigma certainly tips the balance in favor of imports (as they are presently labelled anyway).

The CA ruling bothers me greatly. Laws in this country are rarely made without lobbying efforts behind them. I would not be even mildly surprised if this law had been forcefully (or deceptively) pushed by lobbyists with interests in foreign goods that heretofore have been obliged to compete with the advantage "Made in the USA" often provides, especially in (GASP) the United States.

Long story short: Someone stands to make a lot of money out of this. That's how laws get passed.

I concur.

Best,
Jayne

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

I sell stuff for a living, what do you do?

I work for a marketing firm.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

But a "made in the USA" stamp doesn't automatically make it better. Quality parts and skilled labor, among other things, is what makes a product better.

Since we're talking about guitars and not plastic toys, I'd assume anyone would know that the best guitars are made in the USA. You may not, and you may need to be a "boomer" to have that level of knowledge regarding acoustic instruments.

[Mickey_C]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

Since we're talking about guitars and not plastic toys, I'd assume anyone would know that the best guitars are made in the USA. You may not, and you may need to be a "boomer" to have that level of knowledge regarding acoustic instruments.

The best steel string acoustic guitars are made in the USA, that's true.

The best guitars in the world are another story entirely.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by Mickey_C

To Be Clear:

The last thing in the world I want to see is Made in China items not labeled such and Made in USA items not labeled such.

But if the courts are actually standing behind this nonsense to the point that the Made in USA label is going to be removed from Martin, as the definition of goods origin of manufacturing is now based on component origin, then Eastman guitars should have the Made in China label removed too, whether they like it or not. And if they really want it back, they can sell us guitars with all Chinese woods.

**** OR *****

Some federal court justices can pull their heads out of their backsides.

Other casualties:

All consumer electronics. 100% of consumer electronic companies, they are stuffed full of non-US made parts.

All automobiles 100% of car companies. Electronics parts are not US made.

WHOEVER SAID THIS IS PROTECTING US MADE GOODS IS DELUDED.

This is about globalization, nothing more. It's about erasing americanism, nothing more. Because there will be nothing that can be labeled Made in USA. Except maybe a couple firearms, and you can't buy those in CA anyhow.

As I posted elsewhere, assuming the "Made in USA" label is a selling point, and I firmly believe it is, letting say a Chinese builder claim US made would infuriate folks and the product would be shunned. However, eliminating US made from all products would cause confusion as to which product is in fact made here, which would provide an advantage to non US products that are cheaper.

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

...But a "made in the USA" stamp doesn't automatically make it better. Quality parts and skilled labor, among other things, is what makes a product better.

This is correct, but we do have a well deserved reputation for building some fine products, Martin guitars included.

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

I work for a marketing firm.

Than you should be aware of the marketing value of a "Made in USA" label.

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

Since we're talking about guitars and not plastic toys, I'd assume anyone would know that the best guitars are made in the USA. You may not, and you may need to be a "boomer" to have that level of knowledge regarding acoustic instruments.

It is your opinion that the best guitars are made in the USA. I think we can agree that the most important aspect of a good guitar is its tone. I also think we can agree that what is good tone is largely subjective. That being said, no one can objectively claim the best guitars are made in the USA. If you like the Martin sound best, for example, then it is certainly true for you that the best guitars are made in the USA. But if I like the sound of Lakewood guitars the best, then the same wouldn't be true for me.

Also, why are you assuming that I am not a baby boomer?