The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-28-2015, 11:06 PM
TheElipse TheElipse is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: California
Posts: 30
Smile A few but far reaching spreading questions.

Firstly I'd like to introduce myself as I am brand new to this forum, and there really isn't a place to for people to introduce themselves. I am an acoustic guitar player and have been playing on and off for 9 years. Hello everyone!

I have a few questions and rather than spam the forum creating a thread for each one I thought I'd ask them all at once, although they are not necessarily related to one another.

1)I have a Taylor 150e 12string guitar, it is currently equipped with the stock Elixer strings, which I don't have a problem with as long as they are the nano web NOT the poly web, they really do last a long time. Taylor says that I should only put on 80/20 light gauge strings (10-xx) but I want to try out phosphor bronze, the problem is the 12 string phosphor bronze light gauge are (12-xx) are these fine to put on my guitar without readjustment? Should I try to find the extra light gauge which are quite difficult for me to locate for the right price but do start at gauge 10.

2)Should I be using a guitar humidifier/moisture absorbant?

3)Do you guys know any techniques specific to 12 string guitar, like people or lessons about things that can only be done on a 12 string guitar. I once read about only plucking one of the doubled strings instead of both to get the notes of a specific octave and playing with this idea, but I can't remember where I read it or any songs that do this

4) What do we think of red bear picks? I personally notice a huge difference in tone and haven't had any issues with them, besides getting them in the first place, but I have heard of a great many breaking.

5) What are some of the best 6 string guitars you can buy with a 3000$ budget?

6) Is it worth it to change out the bridge and nut piece on either the GS mini or 150e to bone?

7) What are some things that you guys think are essential for any acoustic guitar player to know? I know this question is vague, but some of you probably have some philosophies of your own that you feel everyone needs to know.


Obvously answering all of these questions is not necessary, I just didn't want to spam the forum when I just started out and have so many questions, I am sure I didn't even ask them all.
__________________
Taylor GS Mini 2013 Mahogany
Taylor 150e 2014 Spruce

Fender Stratocaster MiM w/Texas Specials 2008
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-28-2015, 11:15 PM
efnef efnef is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Black Mountain, NC
Posts: 279
Default

Just Strings is a good internet site for getting your strings at a decent price.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg
http://c1.zzounds.com/media/fit,2018...9a94933e52.jpg

There are several Martin 12 string sets in XL available, as well as other brands. If you don't mind spending a few bucks, the following will make your socks go up and down:

http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-Acoust...onze+12+string
__________________
McIlroy A25C

Last edited by efnef; 06-28-2015 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-29-2015, 12:37 AM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,127
Default

Welcome to AGF!

Lots of good questions.

If I were you, I'd track down the XL's. The 12's might change the action enough so the you won't like it, and the thicker gauge might start bidding at the nut slots. And, I always hesitate to use heavier strings than recommended by the manufacturer unless I plan to tune down...don't like to load the bridge and the top with more tension than the manufacturer has designed for, and would only do so if I had a clear tonal reason, and after I did research that would help me feel that I wasn't damaging the guitar.

If you live near the coast of CA, you can proabably skip the humidification. If not, give it some consideration, and buy a hygrometer to get some data about what the rh is in your area.

What do you want to use your 6 string guitar for? That will very much influence recommendations. Also, it might help for you to have a starting point that you share: "I played a bunch of guitars in the last two weeks, and I didn't like X or Y, and I liked Z, except I am concerned it won't be loud enough". Like that.

I don't have good answers for your other questions.

Best of luck.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-29-2015, 12:48 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Posts: 31,164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
Firstly I'd like to introduce myself as I am brand new to this forum, and there really isn't a place to for people to introduce themselves. I am an acoustic guitar player and have been playing on and off for 9 years. Hello everyone!
Howdy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
I have a few questions and rather than spam the forum creating a thread for each one I thought I'd ask them all at once, although they are not necessarily related to one another.
You can start as many threads as you like, and it can actually be a good idea when asking a specific question, as many folks won't read long posts but will read and respond to brief ones.

Of course, this is fine, too. But if you don't get as much information as you'd like with this long post, try asking specific questions in threads dedicated to just that question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
1)I have a Taylor 150e 12string guitar, it is currently equipped with the stock Elixer strings, which I don't have a problem with as long as they are the nano web NOT the poly web, they really do last a long time. Taylor says that I should only put on 80/20 light gauge strings (10-xx) but I want to try out phosphor bronze, the problem is the 12 string phosphor bronze light gauge are (12-xx) are these fine to put on my guitar without readjustment?
You can put any brand or alloy string you want on that guitar, you just want to keep an eye on string tension. Now, phosphor bronze strings typically DO generate slightly more tension than 80/20 bronze strings, but I doubt it would be enough extra tension to damage anything, so long as you're not replacing 80/20 lights with a heavier gauge.

Okay, I just went back and re-read your question. The Elixir phosphors you're talking about are a bit heavier.

Something you might consider is using the phosphors but tuning the guitar down a half step or full step - in other words, either from Eb to Eb or D to D.

I prefer to keep my 12 string tuned D to D because on a 12 string I just like the tone down there better. It's easier on the guitar, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
Should I try to find the extra light gauge which are quite difficult for me to locate for the right price but do start at gauge 10.
Try them if you want, but by all means experiment with different alloys and brands, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
2)Should I be using a guitar humidifier/moisture absorbant?
It depends on how dry or humid the climate is where you live, but unless you're in a rainy place like San Francisco, anywhere else in California it's probably a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
3)Do you guys know any techniques specific to 12 string guitar, like people or lessons about things that can only be done on a 12 string guitar. I once read about only plucking one of the doubled strings instead of both to get the notes of a specific octave and playing with this idea, but I can't remember where I read it or any songs that do this
I do that occasionally on my 12 string and the guitar I converted to an 8 string, with octave courses on the D and G strings. But on both those instruments I have the strings in the "Rickenbacker stringing," whihc has the low octave strings uppermost in each pair instead of below. It's a lot harder to just play one string by itself on the fly when the high octave string is uppermost (which is one reason I prefer the Rickenbacker stringing.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
4) What do we think of red bear picks? I personally notice a huge difference in tone and haven't had any issues with them, besides getting them in the first place, but I have heard of a great many breaking.
I don't have any personal experience with those, as I have a strong preference for D'Andrea medium-heavy Classic Celluloid picks for most of my playing and for the Blue Chip TAD-35 for mandolin and baritone guitar. But Red Bear picks have a strong following, the players who use them really seem to like them, and I'm sure someone will chime in on the subject soon enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
5) What are some of the best 6 string guitars you can buy with a 3000$ budget?
Oh, man, that would take weeks to discuss all your options there. Martins, of course, Gibsons, but also quite an array of other brands. That's too extensive a subject to just give you a soundbite answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
6) Is it worth it to change out the bridge and nut piece on either the GS mini or 150e to bone?
The saddle, perhaps. I do have bone nuts on most of my guitars but I'm not sure if you'd get enough benefits with either tone or durability to make it worth doing on those guitars.

The saddle is where the energy generated by the strings transfers directly to the top via the bridge saddle. So anything you change there will have a profound influence on how the guitar sounds.

I have heard a before and after difference when I've changed out factory stock synthetic nuts for bone, but it's far more subtle. You definitely don't get as much for your money when you replace a synthetic nut with bone as when you swap a plastic saddle for bone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
7) What are some things that you guys think are essential for any acoustic guitar player to know? I know this question is vague, but some of you probably have some philosophies of your own that you feel everyone needs to know.
Wash your hands before you play, and don't go jumping in the sack with just any old dirtyleg gal who gets friendly when you're playing in a bar. Use some discretion there...

Other than that, nothing immediately springs to mind.

Welcome the the Acoustic Guitar Forum, Elipse. Nice to have you join us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
Obvously answering all of these questions is not necessary, I just didn't want to spam the forum when I just started out and have so many questions, I am sure I didn't even ask them all.
Let's get one thing straight: starting threads and asking questions is not "spamming the forum," not unless you're shilling for some company and trying to sell us something without being straightforward about it. I see zero evidence that that's the case with you, so don't worry about it. Ask as many questions as you like.


Wade Hampton Miller
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-29-2015, 04:30 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Isle of Albion
Posts: 22,067
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
Firstly I'd like to introduce myself as I am brand new to this forum, and there really isn't a place to for people to introduce themselves. I am an acoustic guitar player and have been playing on and off for 9 years. Hello everyone!

I have a few questions and rather than spam the forum creating a thread for each one I thought I'd ask them all at once, although they are not necessarily related to one another.

1)I have a Taylor 150e 12string guitar, it is currently equipped with the stock Elixer strings, which I don't have a problem with as long as they are the nano web NOT the poly web, they really do last a long time. Taylor says that I should only put on 80/20 light gauge strings (10-xx) but I want to try out phosphor bronze, the problem is the 12 string phosphor bronze light gauge are (12-xx) are these fine to put on my guitar without readjustment? Should I try to find the extra light gauge which are quite difficult for me to locate for the right price but do start at gauge 10.

2)Should I be using a guitar humidifier/moisture absorbant?

3)Do you guys know any techniques specific to 12 string guitar, like people or lessons about things that can only be done on a 12 string guitar. I once read about only plucking one of the doubled strings instead of both to get the notes of a specific octave and playing with this idea, but I can't remember where I read it or any songs that do this

4) What do we think of red bear picks? I personally notice a huge difference in tone and haven't had any issues with them, besides getting them in the first place, but I have heard of a great many breaking.

5) What are some of the best 6 string guitars you can buy with a 3000$ budget?

6) Is it worth it to change out the bridge and nut piece on either the GS mini or 150e to bone?

7) What are some things that you guys think are essential for any acoustic guitar player to know? I know this question is vague, but some of you probably have some philosophies of your own that you feel everyone needs to know.


Obvously answering all of these questions is not necessary, I just didn't want to spam the forum when I just started out and have so many questions, I am sure I didn't even ask them all.
Hi,

Q1. I have a Martin D12-20 - 1964. These are not known for taking tension so well over the years, but I really don't like very light strings.

I use D'addario EJ37 12-54 but tuned down to D - According to some tension calculators - the overall tension is within a few pounds of lights at normal tuning. A lower tuning adds another dynamic compared to your six string.

Q2. It is worth investing in a few Hygrometers. to keep in your cases or room if you keep your guitars out.

My guitars are supposed to be at 40-50% Rel Hum, but sometimes my house can get to 35% in winter and 65% in summer (like now when all the doors and windows are open all day/night long).

Keeping instruments in cases helps a lot as it sl0ows down any rapid temp and humidity changes, but I've made my own humidifiers which are little plastic perforated tubes with high density foam inside into which I put a small amount of water... in fact I only do this in the depth of winter.

Q3. No - I just play my own style. But, look on youtube.

Q4. Picks - a major and constant dialogue here with considerable variance in views. I use Blue Chips and Wegens.

Q5. I can't advise as I am not in the USA. Sorry but I think it is pointless for anyone tom recommend a guitar for you - its a personal journey dependant on your wants and needs. Do lots of research.

Q6. Again, No comment - as I know nothing of Taylors. Generally bone is superior to most other materials.

Q7. BIG QUESTION !!!
i. If you play for yourself - do whatever you want - no rules.
ii. If you play for audiences - remember that you need to combine both performance skills and entertainment skills.
iii. General rule - it is better to do simple well than complicated poorly.
iv. For an audience - keep your pieces under four minutes.
v. Speak to your audience. You are ther for them not the other way around.
vi. PREPARE! Check every aspect of your equipment.
vii. Stage nerves are good. They are not stage fright - they are positive excitement.
n.b Everyone makes mistakes. Keep going, and develop a smiley poker face so's not to signal your flubs to your audience.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-29-2015, 07:29 AM
Oldguy64 Oldguy64 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kansas City metro
Posts: 4,667
Default A few but far reaching spreading questions.

Welcome to the forum.
I also have a 150e and I'm quite fond of it.
I pretty much get all my strings from www.stringsandbeyond.com.
I've only got two string changes under my belt with mine. I tune a half step flat and capo at the first fret when I play with others. I also use phosphor, because the 80/20's are to bright and jangly to my ear.
I'm not a fan of coated strings. Mostly because they cost three times what I pay for uncoated strings, but don't last (for me) three times as long.
I have been experimenting with lights that have a .010 octave G rather than a .008.
I'm currently using an Adamas 1616 set. They sound good, and they are cheap. $8 a set.
When I get up the courage to change the. Strings again, I have a set of John Pearse 1400L in the wings.
Martin makes sets that are a tiny bit less expensive. I'm hesitant to recommend them, as I won't use them on my six-strings. Not because they are inherently bad. I just find them to be stiff.

My advice regarding that particular twelve string.. Before you change the strings, buy two sets of decent bridge pins. Be they plain Ebony, bone, boxwood, tusq....
The pins that ship with the guitar are rubbish. My octave G broke, and when I tried to remove that bridge pin...the top of the pin popped off.
Also, if you are playing tuned to concert pitch and want to tune down, loosen the octave G first.
If you are tuning up to concert pitch, tune the octave G last.
Or, prepare to put on new strings.

As for $3000 to spend on a guitar...that will pretty much buy most high end mass produced guitars of the Martin, Taylor, Gibson variety.
Play guitars till you find the right one.
Where in California are you? If you are near LA. Ted at LA Guitar sales will be your best source of advice, and guitars.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
A bunch of guitars I really enjoy. A head full of lyrics,
A house full of people that “get” me.

Alvarez 5013
Alvarez MD70CE
Alvarez PD85S
Alvarez AJ60SC
Alvarez ABT610e
Alvarez-Yairi GY1
Takamine P3DC
Takamine GJ72CE-12-NAT
Godin Multiac Steel.
Journey Instruments OF660
Gibson G45

Last edited by Oldguy64; 06-29-2015 at 07:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-29-2015, 10:30 AM
TheElipse TheElipse is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: California
Posts: 30
Default

Thanks everyone who took the time to respond to my questions. I am gathering that I should probably make a more specific thread to figure out what guitar I should buy with a $3000 budget. Many of you have suggested that I try different strings and if I do opt to put on a higher gauge that I tune down. I have read online that if I need to play concert pitch I can put on a Capo.
My problem with this is, well firstly I am hesitant to tune down a guitar that I believe was designed to be tuned to concert pitch provided the strings are the right gauge.
Secondly my Capo, and I don't think is a bad one, has a difficult time holding down the octave strings on my 12 string and so I thud. I have one of those Capos that you can adjust the grip with a little turn of a knob, not a clamp on.

"My advice regarding that particular twelve string.. Before you change the strings, buy two sets of decent bridge pins. Be they plain Ebony, bone, boxwood, tusq....
The pins that ship with the guitar are rubbish. My octave G broke, and when I tried to remove that bridge pin...the top of the pin popped off. "-Oldguy64
Yeah I broke my GS mini bridge pin on my very first string change but I just happened to have ebony pins to put on it at the time which turned out to be a fortunate coincidence.

As far as coated strings are concerned. I absolutely hated the polyweb strings by elixer which I used on my previous guitar a couple of times. The nanoweb has been much better, in tone, in playability, and in how long they last. The reason why I want to continue to use coated strings on my 12 string is because changing the strings on that beauty is not something I am looking forward to be doing very often. On my GS mini the coated strings that came with the guitar lasted for 4 months, playing at least 2 hours everyday, and even then I didn't really HAVE to change them I was just really excited to try on these John Pearse strings that I had been holding on to as well as swap out my bridge pins for cosmetic reasons. If I can get my strings to last that long on my 12 string that would be ideal. I think I might try buy a set of some of the recommended strings just because they were recommended and I am not the type of person that turns my head away from something I don't know without at least giving it a try.
__________________
Taylor GS Mini 2013 Mahogany
Taylor 150e 2014 Spruce

Fender Stratocaster MiM w/Texas Specials 2008
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-29-2015, 10:56 AM
bbarkow bbarkow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St. Joseph, MO
Posts: 371
Default

As to your capo question, a little trick I learned long ago is this...

When putting the capo on, I press down on the top of the capo with two fingers of my right hand to get the tension against the strings where I want it, THEN tighten down the screw to match that pressure. It's also helpful because that technique cuts down a lot on having to tweak my tuning after putting the capo on.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-29-2015, 11:02 AM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,946
Default

I'll add my opinion to the mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
1)I have a Taylor 150e 12string guitar, it is currently equipped with the stock Elixer strings, which I don't have a problem with as long as they are the nano web NOT the poly web, they really do last a long time. Taylor says that I should only put on 80/20 light gauge strings (10-xx) but I want to try out phosphor bronze, the problem is the 12 string phosphor bronze light gauge are (12-xx) are these fine to put on my guitar without readjustment? Should I try to find the extra light gauge which are quite difficult for me to locate for the right price but do start at gauge 10.
I would stay with light gauge on the 12 string. If you switch to the PBs and they are a different gauge you should either perform proper setup or pay to have it done. There will be a difference.

Quote:
2)Should I be using a guitar humidifier/moisture absorbant?
If you live in a region that's very dry, yes.

Quote:
3)Do you guys know any techniques specific to 12 string guitar, like people or lessons about things that can only be done on a 12 string guitar. I once read about only plucking one of the doubled strings instead of both to get the notes of a specific octave and playing with this idea, but I can't remember where I read it or any songs that do this
The acoustic songs in this article would be a good place to start
http://www.guitarworld.com/top-30-12...songs-all-time

Quote:
4) What do we think of red bear picks? I personally notice a huge difference in tone and haven't had any issues with them, besides getting them in the first place, but I have heard of a great many breaking.
Never tried them

Quote:
5) What are some of the best 6 string guitars you can buy with a 3000$ budget?
The staples from the big builders priced $1800-$3000 are: Martin D18, Martin D28, Gibson J-35, Gibson J-45 Standard, Gibson Advanced Jumbo, Taylor 300-800 series. You'll have to negoiate an 800 series down a bit but you should be able to get one for $3000. These are all production model all solid wood guitars made in the USA. One isn't necessarily better in quality than the next, it just comes down to personal preference. The cost difference is in materials and ornamentation all are pro-grade and you just need to find the right "tool" for you. If you want to save a bit look at all solid wood options from Asian builders. Eastman and Blueridge put out great product.

The next step up in terms of craftsmanship would be $5k-$10k range which would be a guitars from boutique builders like Collings, Santa Cruz and limited runs from big builders like the Martin Authentic line.

Quote:
6) Is it worth it to change out the bridge and nut piece on either the GS mini or 150e to bone?
No. Good luck with the GS Mini. They are fun while they last.

Quote:
7) What are some things that you guys think are essential for any acoustic guitar player to know? I know this question is vague, but some of you probably have some philosophies of your own that you feel everyone needs to know.
1. Learning guitar is not a linear path. Yes we all start with three chords and learning the basics, but beyond that getting to the mountain top of what you want to do with the guitar is going to be one of a few different roads. If you goal is to play instrumental parts like Tommy Emanuel then as you transition to immediate level you need to change focus a bit. If your goal is to be a singer-songwriter you want to put a lot of focus on when to play and when not to play and working on making your guitar playing complement your vocal technique. It's really a very versatile instrument so figure out what you want to do with it early on. 2. You can't rush progress. Use a metronome or drum track and force yourself to learn the song slowly in proper time and then slowly increase the speed. 3. Always tune before playing.
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-29-2015, 12:10 PM
Earwitness Earwitness is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,078
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElipse View Post
5) What are some of the best 6 string guitars you can buy with a 3000$ budget?


7) What are some things that you guys think are essential for any acoustic guitar player to know? I know this question is vague, but some of you probably have some philosophies of your own that you feel everyone needs to know.
As for the no. 5 question, you basically have a budget that can buy you--especially used--most of the finest guitars ever made. My advice is just not to rush a decision. It's kind of like asking, "What are some of the best cars I can get for $85,000." Probably 1/3 of all the content on AGF is some form of discussion on this topic, so just keep reading!

As for no. 7, there are some brilliant players and teachers on here who can give you very organized and informed answers, but from an everyday plodder/duffer, I would offer these ideas:

1. Everyone should have at least something he can play perfectly in a pinch. Uh oh, this one is kind of exposing my own failure! Anyway, it's a long way from 96% perfect to perfect, so try to put at least some things in the 100% pile. (Meaning 100% right for your own level, as you are capable.)

2. Accumulating more keys you can comfortably play in--just transpose every song into lots of keys as you practice. This is sure to be useful, whether beginner or advanced, and it helps me hear things better and know the fretboard better.

3. Whether playing with fingers or a pick, the progression of first, being able to put a regular (in rhythm) bass note into each measure, and then, later being able to put interesting bass movement into the song.

4. Start with one, and build up the number of, songs that people might want to sing along with, taking into account the age/type of people you might be around. These can be simple, and can be from your 96% pile, because when people are singing they are not as critical.

5. Steer toward what you love to play and practice--maybe even your own creations; whatever makes you happy.
__________________
2010 Allison D (German spruce/Honduran mahogany)
2014 Sage Rock "0" (sitka spruce/Honduran mahogany)
2016 Martin CEO-7 (Adi spruce/sipo)
1976 Ovation 1613-4 nylon--spruce top
1963 Guild Mark II nylon--spruce top
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-29-2015, 01:49 PM
TheElipse TheElipse is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: California
Posts: 30
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmz76 View Post
No. Good luck with the GS Mini. They are fun while they last.
can you elaborate or point to a thread where this is discussed?
__________________
Taylor GS Mini 2013 Mahogany
Taylor 150e 2014 Spruce

Fender Stratocaster MiM w/Texas Specials 2008
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=