How to teach Metal / Hard Rock to a beginner?

[Davis Webb]

Music therapy is ...therapy. Sounds like he found a treasure in you.

[BTF]

Agreed!!!

[ameetnsharma]

Originally Posted by pf400

Original poster here. Must say I have received very high quality and caring responses...thanks so much. More facts: I've known the boy's father for years at work and I know the parents have tried therapy with him and alone. The boy has very low self-esteem, even threatening suicide ("I'm so useless") when
he realized he was failing badly at school. Parents are delighted that he is interested in something (guitar). He has no favourite band but says he listens to LOTS of rock music. I've played rock, blues, acoustic fingerstyle for decades. I like the idea of developing a song with him. He has a decent guitar and amp. Maybe one insight will help: I told his Dad I can teach him once per week but not necessarily on the same day. His Dad is afraid that that will upset him, as he needs things very fixed shall I say. However, we'll try to change up the days and see if he can learn to cope with that touch of incertainty. We'll start in a week or two and I'll repost then but I'll be grateful for further replies too.

best of luck!

[NOTP]

My thoughts as a similar metalhead kid from the same town where OP lives. Except I'm in my 30s instead of OP's teen student.

Kid possibly needs some carefully guided life lessons from someone he respects, or there is the chance of him growing up with zero street smarts and zero social graces. I know I had no real direction and was aimless at that age. Kid probably has everything done for him by his loving parents, so he feels he can slack off (ie - quit school and no aspiration to get a job) and someone will pick up after him. Please assign him something with goals, even if it's household chores, so that he can taste fruits of his success and get into the mindset that he needs to put in his own effort to achieve things. He will encounter failure and frustration, but will accomplish tasks and learn life lessons. That is invaluable.

He sounds sheltered if he can't handle trivial things like dust on the guitar or breaking a string. That's life. I'm sorry, there are people suffering and dying around the globe from diseases and violence, so a little perspective could help. Virtually nothing bad happens in our safe little city. If we lived in a warzone or poverty-stricken area, I bet he won't have time to complain about something so insignificant as a broken string in the grand scheme of things.

As for guitar lessons, every kid that age wants to turn up the gain to maximum and completely dial out the mids, even if they don't listen to Metallica who are probably the worst band to have influenced two generations of beginners to rape their tone like this. Teach him how to obtain a good tone with CONSIDERABLY LESS GAIN and CONSIDERABLY MORE MIDS. Rock/metal electric guitar shouldn't compete in the bass and treble frequencies with the bass and drums or it will get buried in the mix. Leave the low frequencies for the bassist and drums, and leave the high frequencies for the cymbals. Goodbye fizzy "teenage guitar store hack" tone rape!

[ameetnsharma]

Originally Posted by NOTP

My thoughts as a similar metalhead kid from the same town where OP lives. Except I'm in my 30s instead of OP's teen student.

Kid possibly needs some carefully guided life lessons from someone he respects, or there is the chance of him growing up with zero street smarts and zero social graces. I know I had no real direction and was aimless at that age. Kid probably has everything done for him by his loving parents, so he feels he can slack off (ie - quit school and no aspiration to get a job) and someone will pick up after him. Please assign him something with goals, even if it's household chores, so that he can taste fruits of his success and get into the mindset that he needs to put in his own effort to achieve things. He will encounter failure and frustration, but will accomplish tasks and learn life lessons. That is invaluable.

He sounds sheltered if he can't handle trivial things like dust on the guitar or breaking a string. That's life. I'm sorry, there are people suffering and dying around the globe from diseases and violence, so a little perspective could help. Virtually nothing bad happens in our safe little city. If we lived in a warzone or poverty-stricken area, I bet he won't have time to complain about something so insignificant as a broken string in the grand scheme of things.

As for guitar lessons, every kid that age wants to turn up the gain to maximum and completely dial out the mids, even if they don't listen to Metallica who are probably the worst band to have influenced two generations of beginners to rape their tone like this. Teach him how to obtain a good tone with CONSIDERABLY LESS GAIN and CONSIDERABLY MORE MIDS. Rock/metal electric guitar shouldn't compete in the bass and treble frequencies with the bass and drums or it will get buried in the mix. Leave the low frequencies for the bassist and drums, and leave the high frequencies for the cymbals. Goodbye fizzy "teenage guitar store hack" tone rape!

I strongly disagree with the OP giving any "life advice". This would completely turn me off as a music student. Look we don't know what this kid is dealing with... He might be dealing with mental illness, social anxiety disorder, depression etc... OP already mentioned learning difficulties. He probably already knows he needs to succeed without his parents' help. This kind of advice will just sound condescending. As someone who has suffered from mental illness... this kind of "you need to suck it up, others have it worse off than you" advice is not helpful at all.

He wants to learn music. That should be the OP's focus, helping him with learning music.

[NOTP]

I didn't necessarily suggest that OP himself be the person who is going to life-coach the teen. It could be anyone as long as the teen respects the person, but often a teacher of skills or authority figure becomes that great mentor. Instructors, coaches, teachers, and tutors can be a positive influence on the young person's life.

I thank you for giving your perspective from someone who has gone through mental health issues. I am simply giving my perspective from someone who has gone through "lack of drive" and "spoiled first-world child" issues at that age, just in case the OP's student does come from that angle. The OP did not confirm 100% either way if his student has mental health issues or if he is just a lazy bugger. OP admits he doesn't know the student very well. We could both be right. We could both be wrong. But we are both offering our perspectives just in case OP's student does fit one or both of our experiences.

EDIT - I am also offering my perspective as someone who enjoys rock and metal and understands that subculture. There are plenty of things about the stereotype of rockers and metalheads that are true; that they can be lazy and only focus on music to the expense of all else, they can be outcasts who have trouble integrating with society and learning things about the world, they might think they can just be rock stars and don't need to work real jobs, etc.

[ameetnsharma]

Originally Posted by NOTP

I didn't necessarily suggest that OP himself be the person who is going to life-coach the teen. It could be anyone as long as the teen respects the person, but often a teacher of skills or authority figure becomes that great mentor. Instructors, coaches, teachers, and tutors can be a positive influence on the young person's life.

I thank you for giving your perspective from someone who has gone through mental health issues. I am simply giving my perspective from someone who has gone through "lack of drive" and "spoiled first-world child" issues at that age, just in case the OP's student does come from that angle. The OP did not confirm 100% either way if his student has mental health issues or if he is just a lazy bugger. OP admits he doesn't know the student very well. We could both be right. We could both be wrong. But we are both offering our perspectives just in case OP's student does fit one or both of our experiences.

Completely agree with this post. I'm sorry if I sounded antagonistic at all in my last post.

Glad we both gave our perspectives.

[ameetnsharma]

Originally Posted by NOTP

EDIT - I am also offering my perspective as someone who enjoys rock and metal and understands that subculture. There are plenty of things about the stereotype of rockers and metalheads that are true; that they can be lazy and only focus on music to the expense of all else, they can be outcasts who have trouble integrating with society and learning things about the world, they might think they can just be rock stars and don't need to work real jobs, etc.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't have the experience of the metal subculture. Your experience and perspective is definitely valuable and could relate to this situation.

[johnd]

How would you get a guitar to give a metal or hard/heavy rock sound? Lots of the bands mentioned in this thread I wouldn't have put in those categories but for instance how would you get something similar to this (www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbpqZT_56Ns) or to classic Metallica, or more modern "nu metal" like Linkin Park? Is it just a matter of effects, or do you have to modify your guitar - serious detuning, monster strings, etc?

[Davis Webb]

The thing is, most kids idea of metal is "I want to kill everyone". Its a pretty dysfunctional genre.

[Pualee]

Hmm...

The kid has loving parents (physical needs met).
The kid has issues (emotional needs... are they met)?

I think he needs someone to listen to him. Parents don't really count here, but somehow and somewhere something is getting the kid down.

I'd say just listen to the kid as much as possible, spend as much time together as possible. Give him choices he can make:

Do you want to work on this string sweep, improvising on this harmonic minor scale, or this rhythm sequence?

Let him know what is coming down the pipes (a list of techniques to learn) and let him pick which to do (he feels in control, but really, you already laid it out for him). Listen to everything he says, whether guitar related or not. You might only spend 1/10th of the lesson on guitar and 90% being a friend. Drive for measurable progress, but not at the loss of listening and being a friend.

When you ask for songs he wants to learn, get several at once, listen to them, and find one with uplifting lyrics. Steer away from negative stuff as much as possible without appearing to avoid it. Maybe even suggest he write an alternate verse for a song after you get some of it down (this is a good way to listen to him again).

Kids need their physical and emotional needs to be met. Then they can blossom. Letting a kid know he is important, and making time for him regularly will boost him a lot. I'm dead tired every day, I don't have a minute to spare... but I will put aside my own desires and ambitions for a kid in a heartbeat.

I don't know metal at all, but maybe try some Skillet? You should find decent lyrics in there, and they crossed into mainstream for a while.

[johnd]

You can even find Christian punk/metal bands, even if you do not lean that way they will at least be a more positive lyrics, and probably not super-religious.

[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by johnd

You can even find Christian punk/metal bands, even if you do not lean that way they will at least be a more positive lyrics, and probably not super-religious.

Yep, there is a way to do metal which is positive, "For the Love of God" by Steve Vai is an example. Its converting those whole tone and darker Phrygian intervals into uplifting sounds, bringing in major and major 7ths to give some ascent out of the abyss. It also makes the dissonant stuff more potent in that it is just not a solid wall of depression. The music shows hope as well as despair. Tons of music studies have been done here at York University, looking at how metal provokes aggression, which in that age group, is good, its an outlet. The key is finding some positives in the imagery. I wonder how this student feels about putting down a verse of lyrics and working with that.

[patticake]

um... no, it isn't. i have lots of friends, and have had lots of friends, into the metal thing who are gentle people. you can't judge a lifetstyle by the face it shows outsiders, or rather you can, but you won't see them - just the outside face. besides, there are many dysfunctional genres out there. one of the least functional people i ever knew (and one of the best guitar players) is a folkie.

hard metal is highly technical stuff with lots of bass. my husband - a full time manufacturing engineer - and i were just sitting here listening to cannibal corpse when he told me about this thread.

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

The thing is, most kids idea of metal is "I want to kill everyone". Its a pretty dysfunctional genre.

[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by patticake

um... no, it isn't. i have lots of friends, and have had lots of friends, into the metal thing who are gentle people. you can't judge a lifetstyle by the face it shows outsiders, or rather you can, but you won't see them - just the outside face. besides, there are many dysfunctional genres out there. one of the least functional people i ever knew (and one of the best guitar players) is a folkie.

hard metal is highly technical stuff with lots of bass. my husband - a full time manufacturing engineer - and i were just sitting here listening to cannibal corpse when he told me about this thread.

You listen to Slipknot? He brags about vomiting into his mask. Characterizing Norweigian Death Metal as gentle is a bit much. Plus, you did not read my next post on the research on metal and its value for young people.