#1
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A question for those who pore fill with epoxy
For those who use epoxy for pore filling....
If you're pore filling oily or problem woods like cocobolo, do you seal the wood with shellac first before applying the epoxy? If so, do you also use shellac on top of the epoxy before applying lacquer? |
#2
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I do french polish not lacquer but I always do one or two seal coats of shellac before doing the pore fill with epoxy regardless of the oil content of the wood.
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#3
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Only consideration if you try shellac followed by epoxy: You may have color splotches where you sand through the epoxy and shellac vs. not through the shellac, even if the shellac is very blond.
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#4
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According to posts from several builders over on the OLF, you can put shellac over epoxy, but not epoxy over shellac. If you search the OLF with "epoxy + shellac + pore + fill" you'll fine some threads that address this.
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#5
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I'm not familiar with those discussions, but personally, I almost always have a spit coat of shellac over every surface pre-finish, applied in the French polish style. In my life, this helps seal off any weird surface oils, exposes any residues, etc. but maybe that's not good for everyone out there.
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#6
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I have read many posts on OLF and other forums with this same information. I have used Zpoxy on one guitar, and it went on a Cocobolo instrument. Worked fine on bare wood.
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Waddy |
#7
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So there is a method there that "everybody" uses for epoxy pore fills, and their groupthink is that it is the only method. That OLF method is to use an epoxy finishing resin called Zpoxy, put it on bare wood, and put it on thick enough that it can be leveled without sanding through. I guess it works for those who use it, although I imagine sand-throughs are an issue. But . . . it is utter hogwash that one cannot put epoxy over shellac. I've been doing it for about 15 years with no problems. I do not use Zpoxy or any other epoxy intended as a finish, because I am only using it for pore fill. I use 5-minute epoxy because it saves days of waiting for slower epoxy to dry. I put a thin coat of dewaxed shellac on first. I squeegee the epoxy in to the pores with a dulled and corners-rounded single edge razor blade, trying to force it down in the pores and leave as little as possible on the surface. [It helps to mix no more than a couple of pea sized dabs of resin and hardener at a time, because until you get fast at it, that's all you can spread before it starts to set; and keep cleaning your razor with an small rag wet with alcohol] When it's hard (overnight) I sand back to wood, which avoids any issue of irregular color. As I said, the epoxy is there to fill pores, not to be a finish coat. No further sealing is needed before lacquering. Nitro lacquer has no need for anything between it and wood. BTW, I learned this method by talking with Bob Milburn, who is well-known for french polishing instructions. Ironically, while his and his father Orville's FP instructions tell how to fill with pumice, he told me 15 years ago that he never did that anymore because the epoxy works so much better. 'Better' is the significant and highly relative term, because I have tried every type of filler, and now use three different kinds depending on the wood and the results desired, and still never get a perfect fill with one application. Get used to frustration, don't believe the ad copy about any filler, refill sooner than later, and learn to drop fill.
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"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." --Paul Simon Last edited by Howard Klepper; 10-04-2017 at 01:27 PM. |
#8
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Nice. Thank you, Howard, for sharing that.
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#9
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I'm very glad you shared that too Howard. I've had this conversation on OLF myself and thought it was strange that your would not use epoxy as a pore filler but rather as a finish itself! I don't want to slather epoxy all over my instrument just to fill the pores. With regular oil based fillers which I have used for 20+ years you fill, sand back to wood, and leave the pores filled. Makes perfect sense.
I then red the Millburn guitar tortorial on French Polish which was basically how I learned to FP and later on he edited that tutorial to include filling with 5min epoxy - boom done! But I've been turned off from epoxy based on all those zpoxy instructions, more afraid to use it then turned off but I just might give it a go now. Do you recommend a particular brand? Millburn said he just uses regular old hardware store 5min epoxy. I have noticed that the Locktite brand seems to dry reasonably clear. |
#10
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-The method you refer to is used by a small subset of forum members. - There is no such thing as "That OLF method". The method exists independent of the forum. - There is no "groupthink" about it. I don't know of a single member who has claimed it is the only method. It's an option that forum readers can choose to use, or not, as they see fit. - Not sanding z-poxy back to the wood is just one of the ways to use it. - If you had read about the method instead of "imagining" you would have found that sand-throughs are not a problem. At least for anyone who is competent at surface prep and sanding. Quote:
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#11
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Anyway... Shellac will stick to nearly anything. Howard's point about the time required is a good one.... The concern is to make sure the epoxy is *fully* cured out before coating shellac over it. The shellac will still dry right over top of uncured epoxy... And then it will crack up to pieces or flake off... The alcohol will also dissolve uncured epoxy and make a mess.. Its not really a shellac problem - its an uncured epoxy problem.... I like to run a hair dryer over epoxy on Day #2.. It seems to help make sure everything is good and cured out - no sticky, mushy, etc.... |
#12
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FWIW I still score some really descent stuff over in the OLF classifieds. There are still some good people there and reputable builders willing to give advice. I think maybe the fact that it is NOT so active might actually be a better thing in a way.
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#13
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"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." --Paul Simon Last edited by Howard Klepper; 10-04-2017 at 07:01 PM. |
#14
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Quote:
__________________
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." --Paul Simon |