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  #16  
Old 01-22-2012, 06:24 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
Somebody should do a scientific study on why the B string acts the way it does.
It's quite simple - the B string acts the way it does because it's EVIL....

If the B string had a face, it would look like this:




Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2012, 06:45 PM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Maybe because it's too close to B flat?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=7442915

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  #18  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:10 PM
dangrunloh dangrunloh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
I have the same issue on a couple of guitars. The B string always seems to sound different than the other 5. It always has a metalic harsh ring to it. I wish I could make it go away.
The B-string is special. You can't treat it like all the others especially if you use a pick. You can't beat on it or dig too deep with a pick without overstimulating it into making undesired very high-pitch harmonics. You must treat it with love and a more gentle handling and it will sing. The high E is that way too but not so bad unless you tune it down. Sometimes it's not the guitar but the player. It may help to use slightly higher gauge on the B if you are that type of player. If you think it's the guitar try moving the string to a different position. It may still do it.

The best pick zone to avoid the "ping" can be very narrow. For some picks it's very difficult for me to avoid it, others not so much.

My guitars are my teachers and they tell me that each string wants to be picked a little differently, you can't just whack at them all with the same force and release. You got to make love to them and the B string is the queen *****. She doesn't mind bare fingers but hates picks, so be nice.

P.S. That is not to say there aren't many other things that make a buzz but I believe the solids will "ping" or "rattle" if over- picked and it's worse with light strings and full length necks. Capo up a few frets and it goes away for me. It's also more obvious with a bright responsive guitar. A little ping actually perks up the dull thuddy ones.
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:22 PM
Rhythm Rhythm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gracecovenant View Post
I've owned a few pretty nice guitars (Martin HD-28v, Taylor 510ce..), but it seems like they've all had B string issues. I can't keep this string from going out of tune with the slightest bend, and they always seem to have a metallic "ping" that grates on my ears. I've even had them professionally set up but it always comes back. What is it about this string?
Funny u should say that. I have the same problem. Ill tune my guitar with a tuner and my b string always sounts a lil off. I have gotten to where i just strum a g chord and tweak it till it sounds right.
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  #20  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:36 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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I have trouble with the B string, particularly on a chord like D major. And when I check the tuning of the string, I often find that the B string is right on, but the G string or D string are slightly off. Particularly when the G and D strings are slightly flat, the B string when in tune can sound terribly wrong.

My interpretation is the equal temperament tuning is at fault, that in the key of D, for example, all the strings are really not accurately pitched for where ears want them to be. Very careful, accurate tuning of all the strings can help, but sometimes I cheat if I am playing in D and tune the B string very slightly flat.

For me, it's not the gauge of the string. I am perfectly happy with light gauge strings, though I understand that many players like the E and B strings to be a little thicker. I remember Howard Emerson telling us that he does this.

- Glenn
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  #21  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:32 AM
JannieA JannieA is offline
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I've gotten so that if I think I need to check the tuning while playing, I'll check the B string first and I can't say it's more flat or sharp, it's just the first to be off - slightly, not a lot. Often it's the only string I have to adjust. This happened with both a Taylor 214 with Elixir Nano 80/20 lights and a Taylor GC3 with Elixir Nano 80/20 Lights and Two sets of Elixir Nano Phosphorous Bronze Lights. Like I said it's not very far out of tune one way or the other, just enough to notice.

Plus what Rythm said, I'll tune with a digital tuner, the two in my iPhone are different than my Korg and the New Snark agrees with the Korg but afterwards I'll tweek the B a little more by ear, hardly enough to change the needle on the tuner but to me its really noticable.

Last edited by JannieA; 01-23-2012 at 12:37 AM.
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  #22  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:43 AM
soups soups is offline
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If I look at my Gibson SG funny, the B string goes flat
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  #23  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:51 AM
mchalebk mchalebk is offline
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Before I got my Peterson virtual strobe tuner (which has a sweetened mode for tuning guitars), I used to tune my B and A strings a little flat and my low E a bit more flat (using a regular, non-tempered tuner). This seemed to give me the best compromise for overall playing.

As far as the B string sounding different, the most obvious reason is that it is different: it's plain steel. So why does it sound worse than the high E, which is also plain steel? My guess is because it's adjacent to a wound string. When you're playing scales or runs, most of the time you'll move from one string to the next. So, moving between the B and high E strings won't create a big change in sound (since they're both plain steel). However, moving between the B and G strings will, with the B string sounding thinner.
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  #24  
Old 01-23-2012, 08:32 AM
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M19 M19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangrunloh View Post
The B-string is special. You can't treat it like all the others especially if you use a pick. You can't beat on it or dig too deep with a pick without overstimulating it into making undesired very high-pitch harmonics. You must treat it with love and a more gentle handling and it will sing. The high E is that way too but not so bad unless you tune it down. Sometimes it's not the guitar but the player. It may help to use slightly higher gauge on the B if you are that type of player. If you think it's the guitar try moving the string to a different position. It may still do it.

The best pick zone to avoid the "ping" can be very narrow. For some picks it's very difficult for me to avoid it, others not so much.

My guitars are my teachers and they tell me that each string wants to be picked a little differently, you can't just whack at them all with the same force and release. You got to make love to them and the B string is the queen *****. She doesn't mind bare fingers but hates picks, so be nice.

P.S. That is not to say there aren't many other things that make a buzz but I believe the solids will "ping" or "rattle" if over- picked and it's worse with light strings and full length necks. Capo up a few frets and it goes away for me. It's also more obvious with a bright responsive guitar. A little ping actually perks up the dull thuddy ones.
+1

Every guitar/string combo has its own "personality." If you get good music out of it, you learn to adjust to that personality. If not, you get a divorce.

I wonder how much GAS has been caused by the B string?
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  #25  
Old 01-23-2012, 08:49 AM
Expateach Expateach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyChris View Post
Landru is correct.

Here is something created to combat this problem.


And if you're really interested, watch some of these videos with, of all people, Steve Vai

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/articl...retboard-.html
That looks brilliant. Surprised it was not done years ago. But must be expensive.
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  #26  
Old 01-23-2012, 08:50 AM
smpetty smpetty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty44 View Post
There are three separate and unrelated issues being discussed here.

The first is the Intonation issue Landru mentioned, which is why guitars never play scientifically "in tune." I've always liked Kevin Ryan's overview and Tempered Tuning method http://www.ryanguitars.com/NewsandEv...ning_Terms.htm
Thanks for the link to Kevin Ryan's article on Tempered Tuning for Guitar. Is there a way to apply the same techniques/theories to non-standard tunings such as DADGAD?

Scott
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  #27  
Old 01-23-2012, 09:11 AM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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I know what you mean about that metalic ping. Yeah, the other issues that guys are (quite rightfully) mentioning are generally wrt intonation and stuff, but the G string is generally worse in that respect, particularly on the the G sharp when playing an E chord. There are lots of fixes including compensating nuts etc...

But yeah, I know what you mean about that metalic ping and I wish I knew the answer! Could be its nut slot cut too low, causing the open string to just touch the first fret when playing it hard, giving rise to that ring. Of course if the nut slot is too high, that will cause intonation issues as I have just said. String slot angle also has to be just right to get best tone and tuning stability.
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  #28  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:32 PM
wrench68 wrench68 is offline
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The OP raised two issues with the B string, losing tune after a bend and pinging.

I think the out of tune condition after a bend is caused by insufficient pre-stretching. Music wire is heat treated steel, and therefore subject to some instability. A solution to the instability of new wire is to pre-stretch it slightly past the tension it will see in service. For example, if you intend to bend B up to C, then overtighten the string to C# on installation. This will make the wire more stable at tensions below C#.

The pinging is a high frequency overtone, and in the case of the B string, it is F#5 (the frequency of which happens to be 3/2 that of the open B). The fact is, all notes played on plain steel strings have higher overtones than wound strings because of the physical properties of plain steel wire. The brass or bronze wrap wire of wound strings is softer, and has higher mass, thereby damping the high overtones of its steel core wire. If you play a B as a fretted note on a wound string, there is ping, but not audible against the fundamental note. In an actual measurement, a B played at 4th fret of the G string measures -8 db, while the F#5 overtone measured -36 db. The open B also measured -8 db, but the F#5 overtone measured -11 db, nearly as strong as the fundamental B, and much stronger than the B3 subharmonic. I suspect the ping of the open B is the most noticeable of the steel string overtones because its naturally stronger F#5 overtone is getting further amplified by body resonance..

You can neither defeat nor ignore the laws of physics, so I think dangrunloh gave the only solution - pick it nicely.
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  #29  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:12 PM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench68 View Post
The OP raised two issues with the B string, losing tune after a bend and pinging.

I think the out of tune condition after a bend is caused by insufficient pre-stretching. Music wire is heat treated steel, and therefore subject to some instability. A solution to the instability of new wire is to pre-stretch it slightly past the tension it will see in service. For example, if you intend to bend B up to C, then overtighten the string to C# on installation. This will make the wire more stable at tensions below C#.

The pinging is a high frequency overtone, and in the case of the B string, it is F#5 (the frequency of which happens to be 3/2 that of the open B). The fact is, all notes played on plain steel strings have higher overtones than wound strings because of the physical properties of plain steel wire. The brass or bronze wrap wire of wound strings is softer, and has higher mass, thereby damping the high overtones of its steel core wire. If you play a B as a fretted note on a wound string, there is ping, but not audible against the fundamental note. In an actual measurement, a B played at 4th fret of the G string measures -8 db, while the F#5 overtone measured -36 db. The open B also measured -8 db, but the F#5 overtone measured -11 db, nearly as strong as the fundamental B, and much stronger than the B3 subharmonic. I suspect the ping of the open B is the most noticeable of the steel string overtones because its naturally stronger F#5 overtone is getting further amplified by body resonance..

You can neither defeat nor ignore the laws of physics, so I think dangrunloh gave the only solution - pick it nicely.
Now that is an answer! Thanks ;-)
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  #30  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:23 PM
FrankS FrankS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
Somebody should do a scientific study on why the B string acts the way it does.
When plucking a string on a guitar (or other stringed instrument) the energy of the string has to transfer its energy to productive parts of the guitar. For this to happen, design, components, and quality and age of the wood is a factor. Here are some illustrative videos showing energy transfers. Sometimes some notes are notorious for being inefficient in transferring their energy to sound producing surfaces so there is a less desirable quality to the sound.

Frank Sanns

http://youtu.be/W1TMZASCR-I

http://youtu.be/KGfqW8LylBs
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