Composite Acoustics – First Impressions

[riorider]

Over the last couple of months I’ve been intrigued by the discussions on the AGF about the release of the CA Cargo. I’ve played a Baby Taylor for about 5 years, camping, traveling, and whenever I needed to conserve space or didn’t want to take an expensive guitar to a dubious location.

Last weekend we camped and I took the Baby Taylor along, and enjoyed it - BUT for the first time I felt the limitations of the small fingerboard. So, while still interested in the Cargo as a possible replacement for the BT, I decided it may be worth taking a look and listening to a full sized CA.

Yesterday I followed the AGF link to the CA site, looked through the models, and found that there was a dealer within 60 miles, so I took the trip. “Norman Music Store” in Norman, Oklahoma, has a small but nice selection of acoustics – Taks, Yamahas (soon), and a few other mid-range brands that I didn’t recognize. They also had 3 CAs – all in the “Player” series (which is the new series 7 from what I can tell), in the dread, GX (GA) and X (thinline) sizes, all gloss black.

I was warmly greeted, questions enthusiastically answered, and I was led to the amp room, and given as much space and time as I wanted. I was originally just interested in the GX and X, but Joey brought along the dread as well. He played a few bars with each guitar for me so I could listen from an audience position, and then I played for quite a while by myself.

In summary, I found the X (thinline) to be more, well, thin than the other two. I would compare it to the T5 Taylor vs. a GA Taylor – good acoustic sound but no one would ever mistake one for the other.

The GX was very comfortable and had excellent tone and playability. I did try the dread, and the tone was deeper, richer – adding, not changing the tonal range. But it was a typical dread size, and sitting with it was much less comfortable than with the GX. So I spent the next 20 minutes alone with the GX.

The body shape is excellent. It sits well either traditional or classic style – the neck length is standard, and although the nut is 1.75 and the string spacing is 2.25 I believe, it felt roomy without having to stretch. Plus one for the neck shape! I did not try it standing with a strap, but the positions of the strap buttons and shape of the back would lead me to expect it to be equally comfortable while standing.

The fit and finish were high points – clearly well manufactured and felt and looked like glass – definitely NOT plastic. Having played a couple of Ovations long ago, I was expecting that tonal signature and body comfort, but the finish far excelled what I remembered (nothing against current Ovations – I just haven’t played or handled one in 20 years so I don’t know how their finish is these days!).

The fingerboard was very comfortable, felt and looked liked fine ebony. The tuners (Gotoh 381s) were well sized and smooth. I have nothing but praise for the fit and finish.

I noticed a “tinniness” that I thought was my imagination, and then realized that I was getting a mild fret buzz when picking more strongly or strumming even moderately (thick pick). I mapped the fingerboard and found that the E, A, and D strings were all buzzing up to about the 5th fret, and the G string for the first couple of frets. The B and high E were clear all the way, and all the strings were clear above the frets noted. The action was not high anywhere on the neck – it was comfortable – but in thinking about the fret buzz wondered about a truss rod. Then I remembered that CAs don’t use one because they are so stable! So the only way to address this would be to have the saddle and nut and possibly frets adjusted by a tech. This particular shop has one of the few (maybe only in the state) PLEK machines, so I’m sure this is fixable. I was mildly surprised, though. The strings felt like mediums (I didn’t ask – wasn’t serious about taking it home, or I would have). Worth noting that any adjustment would need to be a tech adjustment, though.

Comments on tone – and here I’ll get into trouble with the CA aficionados, but these are my impressions and hopefully everyone can just take them for what they’re worth. Bottom line? I don’t think anyone would have trouble picking them out of a “lineup” in a blind listening test with a comparably price array of wood guitars. They have a – for lack of a better term – “machined” or “manufactured” tone. It’s not metallic; it’s not plastic; it is analogous to the difference between Arts & Crafts furniture and Modern Danish. It may be all taste – so be it. It is much richer than poorly constructed wood guitars; but between a decent wood guitar (e.g. the Yamaha FG730s I recently sold; about $300 new) and the CA, I would choose the tone of the Yami every time.

These tone comments are about the tone un-amplified. I was provided a Fender Acoustisonic amp, and plugged in and DSPd I’m sure you could make the CA sound as good as most guitars with electronics. But that wouldn’t be my use of the guitar, so the electronics for me were just factors that compromised the weather resistance!

So, how do I sum it up? This will also insult the CA fans, but it’s the best analogy I can come up with: outside on my deck I have some very comfortable plastic-web chairs, and a plastic table. I leave it out all year long – snow, rain, sun, heat – no worries. When I go out on the deck it’s great, comfortable, cool, and ready. But inside I have my leather recliner, and I would not choose the deck chairs over the leather recliner. I have to take more care of my leather chair, but don’t mind doing that for the benefits I get out of it.

For me, it is the same with the CA. Great guitar in an environment that would ruin an all-wood guitar. But with reasonable care, an all wood guitar does fine in everything except 100% humidity (rain, snow). And for the price differential, I can replace several wood guitars for the price of the GA. For me, it doesn’t add up. I can see why others would make a different decision.

Positives:
Finish and fit
Tonal qualities – different than wood, but very good
Stability
“Feel” – body, fretboard
Confidence in resistance to weather
“Stealth” electronics (just two little wheels for vol / tone, almost hidden at the top of the soundhole)

Negatives:
Needs a tech to adjust the action if ever needed
Weight – surprised me how weighty it was. Not bad, just unexpected. (I guess I thought it would be like a plastic guitar!)
Price – not a guitar to leave unguarded – even the Cargo at $800ish would be a hard loss
Tone is very good, but is not wood
H2O resistance compromised because of electronics
Size – the GX wouldn’t be more portable than any other parlour or full size guitar

Following is a great video from CA, as posted on the Artisan Guitars website:

https://www.artisanguitars.com/CAvideo.html

[leeasam]

to me it sounds as if there were some fret dressing issues on that guitar you played. I did play a GX that had the high E muting out on the 13th fret. Store owner could not hear it but I could. Striahgt edge on the frets showed a high fret.

Intersting on the blind listening test. I posted a while back my former Taylor 814CE clip against my CA GX performer and had people guess. More got it WRONG than right. So that tells me different.

I have played a Yamaha 730S and while nice guitars can no where near come close to the tone of either my Taylor I had or the GX . My taste for tone is a fuller mature sounding not a thinner sounding tone.

The cargo I feel fills a niche that is currently being filled by guitars that sound like toys. the baby Taylor in comparison stinks and sounds like a cheap toy compared to the Cargo. Also the baby does not stay tuned well and intonation sucks. YES I have owned one and will not again for any price. I ended up buying my boy an Alvarez RF8 LAMINATE guitar that blew tha baby taylor away and it came with a hard case and over $100 cheaper. IMO even the baby taylor is overpriced. I tried to like them but the frustration of crappy tuning issues and intonation drove me nuts.

While I now there are wood guitars that can overall have more unique tone than my GX( I still want a Martin HD28V someday!) for what I use mine for the GX does everything my taylor did as well or even better. Also unlike even most wood guitars whether high end small builder or mass produced my GX does not have bad or dead notes at specific areas on the fret board because of the wood not handling specific vibration frequencies well.

I have been in guitar shops talking with people and what some like are alot different that what I like in tone. I really do not like some of the old vintage thin sounding almost resenator type tone wood guitars. I like big rich bold with piano type bass with clear mids and highs with out that area being overly pronounced.

I can play a guitar and love it and another in the store goes hmm ya.OK I guess. so if one does not like a deeper richer tone then yup a CA may not be for you.

[biggs2]

Riorider,

Now, I am curious about your experience with the GX at Norman Music. I stopped in earlier this month played the same guitar but didn't notice the fret buzz. I did however, notice just a bit of "tinniness" myself which at the time, I chalked-up to it just having a brighter tone; almost the brightness you would hear when comparing a Taylor to say, a Larrivee or lower-end Martin.

Like you, I found the staff at Norman Music very helpful. They plugged in the GX to a small PA system (I think it was a Yamaha Stage Pas) and the little GX sounded great amplified.

I was seriously considering a GX Player as a guitar that I don't have to pamper and keep in my temperature and humidity-controlled studio (bedroom). So, I think I will have to spend a little more time evaluating the guitar. I do appreciate the detail you provided in your post.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by riorider

and found that there was a dealer within 60 miles, so I took the trip. “Norman Music Store” in Norman, Oklahoma

You were within a couple miles of my parent's house.

Did you happen to notice their Plek machine and ask about it? Edit: Oops, I see you did!

[riorider]

leeasam - I'm sure different ears hear differently, and even if we hear the same we like some more than others. No worries - I'm glad you like yours. And to be fair I didn't A/B it with any other guitars right there.

I did come home and played the same "set" on the Baranik (not fair) and on my all-mahogany Taylor (514). The rooms were not the same but were close, so I think my taste just runs to wood. I did honestly try to be as objective as possible!

biggs2 - I didn't ask about the fret buzz, but should have. I did enjoy the guitar and the glass-like finish and the obvious care of construction. I'd have to think about it quite a bit - I'm not finding it too much trouble to keep the humidity within reason in central OK!

song - I read about their PLEK but forgot to ask! I had read an ad last year about a local guy selling a 414 Taylor, I think, who mentioned he'd had it PLEK'd twice, and I wondered at the time where in the world he had taken it... now I know!

I look forward to trying a Cargo. Thanks all... rr

[Thin Crust]

Great report! I just received notice that CA has started shipping Cargos.............in a new type gig bag. I'm excited all over again.

[Bill Cory]

That's a cool video. Part of me wonders if the guitar music in the background was all played on CA guitars ... or wood.

The Mac and PC parodies were pretty good too.

"Inspired" me ...

"Gonna get me a Cargo and A Motorsickle
Sounds sorta like wood and I ain't bein fickle
Gonna get me a Cargo that I can carry
Cause ridin' with a Taylor gets pretty scary
Just want a guitar that I can play
Wherever I decide to stop and stay
Won't worry 'bout losing any action or tone
From heat or cold or dry to the bone"
© (Anyone got a tune that'll work for this?)
Bill

[riorider]

Originally Posted by Will Franklin

"Gonna get me a Cargo and A Motorsickle
Sounds sorta like wood and I ain't bein fickle
Gonna get me a Cargo that I can carry
Cause ridin' with a Taylor gets pretty scary
Just want a guitar that I can play
Wherever I decide to stop and stay
Won't worry 'bout losing any action or tone
From heat or cold or dry to the bone"
© (Anyone got a tune that'll work for this?)
Bill

Arlo came immediately to mind... then some early Paul Simon, but Simon was too introspective... Maybe some "slap-blues" shuffle!
Enjoyed it... RR

[biggs2]

Riorider, I went back to Norman Music and played the GX again. You were right about the fret buzz. It was minor, but there none-the-less. Thanks again for pointing this out in your post! Since I will be buying a GX (or 7M-CE), they were good enough to restring it and put a slight shim under the saddle in a effort to fix the problem. Unfortunately, it added too much height for me and affected the overall action. They will remove the shim to return it to the factory saddle height and put on the Plex machine this evening. If the problem can be fixed to my satisfaction, I will take the guitar, otherwise they will order me a new 7M-CE.

After playing the guitar a second time, I came to the conclusion that I like the balance and overall tone of the guitar. Although I don't particularly care for bright-sounding guitars, the GX is only marginally brighter than my Larrivee LV-03E. If I want more bass and a woodier tone, I'll drag out my Martin OM. I think it will complement my small collection.

This has been only my second visit to Norman Music but, I am really impressed with the professionalism of their staff and their desire to please.

[riorider]

That's GREAT!! Glad you are taking temptation out of my way! Let us know if the PLEK finds anything and can correct it. That's one of the most comfortable guitars I've played, and at this age that's a real selling point !

Phil

[David E]

Riorider, thanks for a great thread. I have been contemplating a leftover Vintage at a favorable price (looks to be former version of the dread).

Based upon what you are saying I am wondering if anyone on the forum has strung any of the CA models with flat wound strings a la Thomastik Infeld and, if so, whether it had any noticeable effect upon tone?

My Honduran RW/Adi flat top behaves pretty differently based upon the flavor of string and my hunch is that carbon fibre or graphite would might be especially sensitive to string type, gauge.......

[leeasam]

the CAs are very responsive to string type. I tried switching from the Phos/bronze nanos to 80/20 nanos and got REAL bright. One of the workers in the store had a GX just like mine and when I plyed it sounded --well lack luster. Well she had strung it with some Martin strings in a pinch.

I do know if my guitar is sounding a little dead it`s not the weather effect on the wood!! --It`s TIME to change strings!!

[mckejoel]

I met with Jay Morrissey of Composite Acoustics, at Sam Ash in Charlotte, NC yesterday evening.
It was great being able to visit with Jay, and learn about the future directions of Composite Acoustics Guitars.
I am excited about the things they are planning to offer in Carbon Fiber guitars.
Jay brought a Charcoal Cargo with the new case, a Red 5iM-CEO, and a custom 8M-CE for our review.

Everyone was playing the Cargo. They would put it down and then pick it up again. We just could not leave that "little" guitar alone. The sound was great plugged in or unplugged. The action was smooth, fast, and just like playing a regular guitar. There was plenty of room for the fingers on the fingerboard. Regardless of the price, it is worth what is being charged in my opinion. This little guitar was not designed to compete directly with the other "lower cost" travel guitars. This guitar is in a category of it's own. Personally, I want the "Red Cargo" and it's gonna be named "Little Devil".

The red 5iM-CEO was the "Big Daddy" version of the Cargo, with a bullet-proof finish (CA calls it Road Tough Satin). This guitar had a great "low-end" and was loud. I was chopping off some blues runs, and this guitar had guts! It almost sounded like a guitar "Robert Johnson" would have made if he were still here! The finish on the back of this guitar is textured, and doesn't slide off your leg while playing it. The finish on the top of this guitar means you never have to worry about fingerprints, small scratches, or dings. The contour of the instrument feels almost intuitively formed to the body...real comfortable. This is definitely a guitar that you can "take anywhere and play anywhere", without worrying about the environment killing your musical investment.

Saving the best for last, there was a custom 8M-CE that was an awesome fingerstyle guitar. It was equally balanced across bass, mids, and trebles. It had impressive response from delicate passages to more aggressive attacks. The guitar responded very well to flatpicking celtic and bluegrass, and was amazing to listen to. Now for the ultimate act of treachery... many folks know that I have been a Taylor advocate for a long time. I noticed that there was a brand new, "2 days out of the box", Taylor 914ce hanging on the wall. I actually "A-B'd" the two guitars, and I think everyone there was quite surprised. Whether I was playing fingerstyle, flat-picking, or strumming, the Composite Acoustics 8M-CE held it's own quite well against the 914ce. This was impressive to say the least. I absolutely know that the 8M-CE will be high on my wish list!

Before I left last night, I came to the realization that the Composite Acoustic Guitars were never made to replace our "wooden beauties". But what they do offer, is an amazing variety of virtually indestructable guitars, that have a sound that can rival many of the better wooden guitars I've heard, and they do it at a price that should encourage every guitarist to have one of these great instruments in their collection!
Great job Composite Acoustics.