The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-11-2013, 06:38 AM
sloguy sloguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Default scale of guitar

what is the advantage of a short scale acoustic. is it good for people with small finger spread. are the frets closer together. i'm a newbie to guitar and have a short span and was wondering if it's good to use a smaller scale.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-11-2013, 07:12 AM
cigarfan's Avatar
cigarfan cigarfan is offline
Music soothes the soul!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Within the blast radius of Washington D.C.
Posts: 5,178
Default

Guitar scale is calculated by the measurement of nut to 12th fret multiplied by 2. The shorter the scale the smaller the distance between frets. A short scale also produces less string tension and therefore easier fretting of the strings.

The downside is usually volume.
__________________
Life is like a box of chocolates ....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-11-2013, 07:56 AM
Ed422 Ed422 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Baltimore, Md
Posts: 3,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cigarfan View Post
Guitar scale is calculated by the measurement of nut to 12th fret multiplied by 2. The shorter the scale the smaller the distance between frets. A short scale also produces less string tension and therefore easier fretting of the strings.

The downside is usually volume.
The tension is different only if the same string gauges are used on both. Usually, there is little or no difference in volume because the guitar has been built to use the shorter scale (bracing, top thickness, etc.) The stretch is less even though the frets are only a tiny bit closer together.

The only way to figure out what is right for you is to try them out. The downside is that most guitars have 25.4 or 25.5 inch scales. Once you get used to a shorter scale, it can be difficult to go back. Of course, some people have no problem switching back and forth between scales.

Ed

Last edited by Ed422; 02-11-2013 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Fixed typos.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-11-2013, 09:21 AM
jpd jpd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
Posts: 11,280
Wink advantage

The advantage is the neck is not as long which makes finger reach and arm comfort very good. Add that to a smaller body(00-o-parlor) and you have an easy player. J.D.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:21 AM
gitnoob gitnoob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 4,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloguy View Post
what is the advantage of a short scale acoustic. is it good for people with small finger spread. are the frets closer together. i'm a newbie to guitar and have a short span and was wondering if it's good to use a smaller scale.
YES! Short scale is very noob-friendly. So are small bodies (ergonomics).

The short scale not only makes reaches easier, but it's easier to fret due to the reduced tension.

Get yourself a Larrivee parlor, newbie. Nice sounding and easy playing.
__________________

gits: good and plenty
chops: snickers
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:26 AM
s2y s2y is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Somewhere middle America
Posts: 6,594
Default

One advantage is that you can use heavier strings without them feeling too heavy. Fatter tone without having to work really hard.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:32 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Coastal Washington State
Posts: 44,927
Default

The typical dreadnought and OM design guitars from Martin have 25.4" scale length. In general, though not always, the 000 Martin modesl are shorter scale 24.9". For example, the Martin 000-18GE is short scale.

In Taylor's line most of their acoustic guitars have 25.4" scale except for the GC line which are shorter 24.9" scale. And then there is the GS mini which has an even shorter scale.

As has been mentioned, for the same gauge of guitar strings the tension is slightly lower in 24.9" scale guitars for the same pitch. So if you use light gauge strings on your guitars as a rule, as I do, then the shorter scale guitars have a little softer feel to the strings, and the frets are slightly closer together making it a little easier to play the guitar if you don't have really large hands and fingers.

The longer 25.4" scale guitars for the same gauge strings have a little more punch and volume at the same pitch. And of course the frets are slightly further apart.

I have a decent number of guitars, all have 25.4" scale length except for one, a Taylor 12-Fret, which is similar to the GC8 but with a 12-Fret design. It's very easy to play but lacks the volume of my other guitars. But it would be a good guitar to learn on, particularly if a person has smaller hands.

Also, some people like the sound of shorter scale guitars. I have read the opinion here on the AGF many times that most people can't tell the difference, but it's pretty obvious to me. The shorter scale guitars have a much softer sound to the string attack because of the lower tension.

- Glenn
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:38 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,549
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
Also, some people like the sound of shorter scale guitars. I have read the opinion here on the AGF many times that most people can't tell the difference
And I would be one of them...

There is certainly a difference that can easily be explained using math, physics or simply pure common sense logic -- but I honestly can't hear it (not that I ever got the chance to play the exact same guitar with two different scales) and I can only feel it when I play specific parts of certain pieces.

Last edited by JoeCharter; 02-11-2013 at 10:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:39 AM
Bruce Sexauer's Avatar
Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Petaluma, CA, USA
Posts: 7,525
Default

In the Martin paradigm, guitars are either 24.9 or 25.4 inch scale lengths. These are generally referred to as short scale or long scale. Any other length is possible technically. Gibsons are traditionally 24 3/4", though some like the AJ are longer, and some, like the Birdland, are shorter at 23.5"!

A guitar which is built by a sensitive builder to be a specific string length is unlikely to have much of a difference in volume, all other things being equal, but is very likely to have a different tonal character. This is because a given string produces a very different tonal signature at a higher tension than the same string at a lower tension. Higher tension produces a more pronounced overtone sequence, whereas lower tension will produce a more fundamental tone. This is why a LS OM sounds brighter and has more projection and clarity (generally) than a SS 000 which will tend toward a sweeter more harmonious but less incisive tonal signature. This sweetness is often favored in the treble register, but makes the bass overly vague. Conversely, the OM bass is usually considered beyond reproach, while the treble may seem a bit harsh to some ears.

It is possible to have the best of both qualities on one guitar, it's called a MultiScale.
__________________
Bruce
http://www.sexauerluthier.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:02 AM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 5,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed422 View Post
The downside is that most guitars have 24.4 or 24.5 inch scales. Once you get used to a shorter scale, it can be difficult to go back. Of course, some people have no problem switching back and forth between scales.

Ed
I can attest to that. When I bought my Taylor GS Mini, a short-scale guitar, I didn't know about the difference, as I had always assumed all guitars are the same length dictated by physics.

I noticed that I found my Mini much easier to play than my full-scale Martin, but never knew why until it finally dawned on me and I took a ruler to the two.

The short-scale would definitely corrupt me if I played it all the time. Therefore, I make an effort to do most of my practicing on my full-scale guitar, and use the Mini only for camping, traveling, or the occasional lesson.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:48 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Coastal Washington State
Posts: 44,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
And I would be one of them...

There is certainly a difference that can easily be explained using math, physics or simply pure common sense logic -- but I honestly can't hear it (not that I ever got the chance to play the exact same guitar with two different scales) and I can only feel it when I play specific parts of certain pieces.
Hi Joe,

I could be wrong, but I think that because you tend to use heavier gauge strings, you are changing the tension equation. Just guessing, of course...

- Glenn
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-11-2013, 12:00 PM
Larry Pattis's Avatar
Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
Humanist
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed422 View Post
<<snip>>

The downside is that most guitars have 24.4 or 24.5 inch scales.

<<snip>>

We know that you meant 25.4" and 25.5" as the scale that most guitars are built with today.

Variations occur, obviously, and we have some choices going all the way down to 22-3/4" for "standard tuned" guitars (not elevated in pitch to compensate for the short scale).

I have evolved (devolved?) to using a 24" scale as my *only* scale length. If it doesn't have the 24" scale, I 'm not even interested. Properly built guitars with this scale length can go beyond just "parlor" sizes, and I have played some darned-fine sounding (world-class, that is) guitars with this scale that have been OM sized and larger.
__________________
Larry Pattis on Spotify and Pandora
LarryPattis.com
American Guitar Masters
100 Greatest Acoustic Guitarists

Steel-string guitars by Rebecca Urlacher and Simon Fay
Classical guitars by Anders Sterner
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-11-2013, 12:45 PM
Ed422 Ed422 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Baltimore, Md
Posts: 3,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
We know that you meant 25.4" and 25.5" as the scale that most guitars are built with today.

Variations occur, obviously, and we have some choices going all the way down to 22-3/4" for "standard tuned" guitars (not elevated in pitch to compensate for the short scale).

I have evolved (devolved?) to using a 24" scale as my *only* scale length. If it doesn't have the 24" scale, I 'm not even interested. Properly built guitars with this scale length can go beyond just "parlor" sizes, and I have played some darned-fine sounding (world-class, that is) guitars with this scale that have been OM sized and larger.
D'oh! (re: my 24 typos)

Ed
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-11-2013, 12:53 PM
Judson Judson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Apex, NC (outside of Raleigh)
Posts: 4,966
Default

Up until fairly recently, all Godin acoustics (Seagull, Simon & Patrick, Norman, Art & Lutherie) had a 24.84 inch scale ... even the dreadnoughts.

According to Godin, now all dreads and what Godin calls the Mini-Jumbo, will have 25.5 inch scale. Folk and Grand (parlor) sizes will retain the short scale.

They say when asked, that their research has shown them that the longer scale improves tone.

Take it for what it's worth.

Like many here, I don't think I could tell the difference in the sound of two guitars identical except for scale length. I'm pretty convinced that the short scale is easier to play, however.
__________________
"Alas for those that never sing, But die with all their music in them!" --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hear my original music at: https://www.reverbnation.com/judsonhair
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-11-2013, 12:58 PM
wooglins wooglins is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 2,839
Default

My BTO GS was built with a short scale neck. I like it allot, but Taylors short scale is not a huge leap from 25.4, as posted it is just 24.9.

Someone else spec'ed out my BTO so it was not my choice, but I really like it. Volume wise I dont think there is a difference, at least not when comparing it to a standard scale GS.

I swap between it and my other guitars which all have 25.5 scale necks, and dont have any trouble. Perhaps its just because it is such a small difference.
__________________
2019 Taylor Summer Ltd. GA Redwood/ Ovangkol

Last edited by wooglins; 02-11-2013 at 01:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=