My first acoustic repair job, a build log with a lot of questions

[packocrayons]

I found this guitar on Kijiji for 10$, I couldn't turn it down due to G.A.S, and figured it would be a cool project.
At some point, the goal is to pull the fingerboard, use fogged acrylic as the inlays, and have LED lights behind them so that the inlays light up, as well as a few lights within the body to make it glow out the soundhole. For now, just getting it playing is the goal.

I went to pick up the guitar, and man, I don't know what these guys did to it, but the break is quite significant, not where one would expect a break to be on the headstock (from all the tutorials I've seen, at least). The guitar is an Ashbury AG-500, which I can't find any info on online, and it doesn't even have a serial number, which is a little weird. It's a solid top guitar, and it looks like it's built well, given that it was clearly hit into something pretty hard to break it like that.

What I'm thinking is to cut the neck clean at the neck, and start over from there. I'm considering routing a small channel into the neck and doing a mortise/tenon joint. My concern is that I don't know how far the truss rod comes down the neck, and I REALLY don't want to hit that when cutting. I'm comfortable building the headstock (and I'm probably going to do something cool and overcomplicated), but sticking it back on to the guitar is where I need help.

After that, I need to make a new saddle. Again all the tutorials I've seen have a saddle to copy, or at least some sort of reference. I have a friend who has a line on some very hard, very exotic woods, and I'm planning to make the saddle out of wood (some of the woods are very beautiful). What I'm thinking is buying a cheap plastic saddle, using it to set up the guitar, and then copying that into wood. My concern here is that I have absolutely no idea where to start with height. The bridge isn't cut all the way down, which I'm not really used to seeing (I think the yamaha green labels are like this but I don't remember).

I've attached some pictures, this is my first real venture into guitar repair, but I have lots of woodworking experience and know how to set up a guitar. I'd appreciate some input on what to do about this.

Here are links to the images because they're showing up absolutely huge on the forum.
http://imgur.com/aJhwjkH
http://imgur.com/XQRf6Rc
http://imgur.com/dN0Rg9A
http://imgur.com/9lDkr1s

[D. Churchland]

First off its good that you want to repair the guitar, your woodworking experience you say you have is a good thing too.

With headstock breaks like this it's not the simplest thing to fix, I wouldn't recommend a mortise and tenon joint in this case. There is a technique where you can cut channels for splines that span the break and go deep into the neck to give a massive amount of long grain for the wood to glue to. We have a member on here named mirwa who is a very skilled repair person whom I'm sure would be able to offer more than myself on this.

The goal with breaks is to have minimal to no end grain to end grain gluing surfaces in the repair. I have had multiple repairs in my shop where the previous gentleman had tried valiantly to repair a break but ended up with a poor result due to poor gluing area and the problem of end grain. I'll see if I can locate a photo of the spline technique and post it so you can see what I'm talking about, in my opinion it'll be one of your best options. Be forewarned it is not simple.

[rodmbds]

+1 on getting a plastic saddle and using it as a reference before working on the definite one. You're right, that's the way to do it.

I know that it doesn't answer your question(s), but have you considered substituting the whole neck for another one? It seems neater and you'll also get some experience on detaching/attaching guitar necks.

[LSemmens]

I'm wondering if you could actually dowel the headstock back on. Rather than timber dowel, which may break given the length that you have to work with, what about some small steel or brass rod glued into place. You could then bend it and cut it to run the full length of the headstock and leave enough to glue as far as you like into the end of the neck.

Of course, I am no luthier, so, please, take this in the spirit in which it is offered.

[packocrayons]

Originally Posted by rodmbds

+1 on getting a plastic saddle and using it as a reference before working on the definite one. You're right, that's the way to do it.

I know that it doesn't answer your question(s), but have you considered substituting the whole neck for another one? It seems neater and you'll also get some experience on detaching/attaching guitar necks.

I'm considering it now. I have enough wood to make a headstock and i don't really want to pay for a neck, what price range are they usually in? (Assuming I can keep the fingerboard which I just oiled and the grain just popped)

Dowelling it seems like an option too, maybe one on either side so I don't risk hitting the truss rod.

Do you mean something like this as a spline repair? https://goo.gl/images/sxpebV

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[mirwa]

Originally Posted by packocrayons

Do you mean something like this as a spline repair? https://goo.gl/images/sxpebV

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

The goal with breaks is to have minimal to no end grain to end grain gluing surfaces I'm the repair.

Will has already said this statement and its totally correct IMO.

That link does not show the best example of a spline repair, whilst yes you re-inforce the break area, it still has two end grain joins for each insert, far from the best way of doing it

Ideally you want long grain to long grain gluing.

Step by step how to do it

http://www.mirwa.com.au/HTS_Headstock_Spline.html

Steve

[packocrayons]

Very impressive. I don't think it's worth my time to make all of those jigs, since this is probably one of very few guitar projects I'll ever work on.
While I do trust you guys since you clearly have much more experience, I can't help but question whether it's really necessary to make the headstock joint so strong? I know strings exert lots of force but that spline job looks like it could lift a small car.

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[charles Tauber]

Saddle height is pretty easy to estimate. Lay a 36" straightedge from the nut to the saddle location. Place a shim under the straightedge at the 12th fret. The shim should be the desired string height, say 3/32". Measure at the saddle location the distance from the top of the bridge to the bottom of the straightedge. This gives you a first approximation of the amount of saddle you will have projecting from the bridge.

The slot in the bridge should be deep enough to support that projection of the saddle, typically as much saddle in the bridge slot as projecting above it. If need be, you can deepen the bridge slot with a narrow chisel, or router or dremel setup.

As for the truss rod location, assuming it is steel, you can use a rare Earth magnet to locate the end of the rod. If there is sufficient room, I'd use a scarf joint with a new head, similar to new guitar construction. There is lots of information available on how to make that joint: it can be made with a hand plane and no jigs.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by packocrayons

I know strings exert lots of force but that spline job looks like it could lift a small car.

Yes those splines are huge.

The reason I use such long splines as I like my splines to go approx 5mm deep, and maintain long grain gluing at all times.

I have seen may smaller splines done by others work fine as well.

Its really not that difficult to do, the only real jig needed is something to guide the route, and this can be achieved in many ways.

Steve

[LSemmens]

Thanks mirwa, that is most illuminating.

[Truckjohn]

That's a pretty bad looking break.

I think you have a fine repair project on your hands... Though my own opinion is that I would prefer to have a good neck and perhaps some other problem - such as a big hole in the body.... I like scavenging necks for guitar body projects.

[packocrayons]

Originally Posted by Truckjohn

That's a pretty bad looking break.

I think you have a fine repair project on your hands... Though my own opinion is that I would prefer to have a good neck and perhaps some other problem - such as a big hole in the body.... I like scavenging necks for guitar body projects.

There is actually a hohner on Kijiji where the neck is detaching, maybe a franken-guitar?

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[Hot Vibrato]

While this can be viewed as a great opportunity to try your hand at repairing what amounts to a worst-case-scenario type headstock break, I agree that whole other neck would be the best solution. Otherwise, yes - removing wood and adding splines is the only hope for achieving a reliable repair.

[packocrayons]

I was planning to do this as a fairly low-cost fix, so I don't think I'm going togo the new neck route. The fingerboard is bound so I'm assuming I'd need a new fingerboard or I'd need to redo all the binding. Is this correct?

The more I think of it, the more reasonable the spline job looks. I only paid 10$ for this guitar, so I'm not super invested if it fails.

If I did go the neck route, the donor neck would probably come from this:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/ottawa...ationFlag=true
Which looks a little bit less repairable. How would I figure out how the neck is connected though? It seems the only way is to talk to a manufacturer and I can't even find the guitar I have online anywhere?

[packocrayons]

So after checking with a magnet, the truss rod comes to almost exactly the first fret. In order to safely avoid it, that gives me an approximate line as shown in the picture, if I wanted to do a scarf joint.
From what I've seen online (and looking at my own guitars), that doesn't seem like it's a huge amount of surface area. However, it does look like the easiest way to stick a headstock on, and then do a spline joint as well if need be.