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Old 02-20-2018, 12:03 PM
javierj javierj is offline
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Default LR Baggs Anthem SL mic handling noise?

Hello,

I just recently had my professional tech/luthier install the Baggs Anthem SL system on my Martin D-16GT acoustic guitar.

I am on the initial tweaking/adjusting/EQ phase. I think I have my LR Baggs PARA DI, Allen & Heath ZED-10FX mixer and active 12 inch 2 way speaker, just where I want it. Now I am just finishing up deciding where I want to have the Anthem SL small Tru Mic adjustment screw.

I have noticed that even with the Tru Mic adjustment screw all the way counter clockwise or ''down,'' I still get some handling noise like when the back of the guitar rubs my t shirt or when I grab the guitar from the stand. If I try to increase or turn up a little clockwise the adjustment screw I will a considerable amount of handling noise.

So does this mean I am going to have to leave the Tru Mic adjustment screw pretty much all the way down in order to have less handling mic noise?

Anyway is not like I am needing to turn up the Tru Mic adjustment screw, since I am getting an already good, none ''muddy'', lively sound, but I was just curious about this.

I am just starting with this system, so later on I could probably want to or need to turn up a little the tru mic adjust screw to get a brighter, crisper sound, but if I do that I will get more handling noise.

At the moment, it seems like the sound is too bright, unless I turn the Tru Mic screw all the way down. Is this normal for other Anthem SL users?

I guess I could live with some handling Tru Mic noise, maybe I am not used or never an acoustic electric guitar system that had a mic that could pickup handling noise like that.

Here is a picture of the placement/installation of the Tru-Mic, just in case for reference sake:






Thanks a lot.

Last edited by javierj; 02-20-2018 at 10:49 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2018, 06:15 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Javier,
The reality is that when you're set up in a room to actually play live with it, you'll probably have to make a point to put your ear to the speaker to hear the handling noise you're hyper-focusing on now.

If you record in a studio with really good external mics you're still going to hear handling noise, more or less, depending on the shirt material, etc.

If you can perform in places where all ears are on your performance, they'll welcome the handling noise because it's coming from you.

HE
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:23 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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I've installed several Anthem SL systems and haven't noticed much handling noise with any of those rigs. The system certainly hasn't been as responsive to top tapping as a soundboard pickup like the Pure Mini, or the Baggs Lyric mic system, or the MiniFlex 2Mic mic system (all of which I've also installed and used). This is because the Anthem SL system is designed so that the mic only picks up frequencies from around 250HZ and up. (As a practical matter, the Tru mic undoubtedly pics up some amount of the signal below 250Hz, but below 250Hz is the point where the mic's responsiveness is rolled off and the undersaddle pickup takes over.)

In your case, I'm wondering if there is proper pressure on the UST. Its rather unusual that you have to turn the mic gain all the way down for a good balance. Perhaps the saddle isn't seated properly on the UST, or there isn't enough saddle extending above the bridge for proper string pressure on the UST. One of those factors might cause it to have a relatively weak signal and be acting more like a soundboard pickup than an undersaddle pickup.

In any event, excessive handling noise isn't a common complaint about the Anthem SL. It could be that you are hyper sensitive to what handling noise there is, or that something unusual is going on with your particular rig.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:54 AM
kcnbys kcnbys is offline
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I have an Anthem SL in my Larrivee OM-40, have adjusted the tru-mic according to my liking, and yes, I have handling noise. I attribute it mostly to a satin finish guitar, but it is definitely there, and noticeable when playing live. My sound techs were the first one's to mention it after I started using the pickup. However, it is not noticeable when we're actually playing. It's just part of the deal with that system if you happen to have satin finish, which your guitar has on the back & sides.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:36 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Turning the tru-mic adjustment all the way down won't get rid of the handling noise as you noticed and it will create a very muddy tone. I can't really remember all the talk about the adjustment screw but I am pretty sure it's not equivalent to turning the mic down, it has more to do with the frequencies being covered by the UST/mic. Again, it's been a while since I read up on it but I just remember it not really being a simple blend control.

With that said, where are you noticing the noise? Is it at home or live? Sorry if I missed that part. If it's at home then you won't notice it live. You might with a satin finished guitar but I actually notice my K&K system picking up more body noise than the Anthem SL that I used to use. In a live setting, it's not an issue at all. I even record live shows and have never noticed the body noises. The only time it became an issue was with my friend's K&K equipped mandolin. Here pic hitting the body made a fairly annoying click but that's to be expected.

Guys like Brad Paisley use the SL live where body noises can easily be amplified and it's fine. Maybe try it live and go from there. I actually find I like the noise more now as I can use it for percussive tones.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:19 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Here's the relevant info from the Anthem SL user guide. As we can see, the adjustment screw does indeed adjust the mic level with this particular system. (The adjustment screw is a tone or "presence" control with the Lyric system.) As we can also see, these instructions do indeed mention the possibility of excessive handling noise with a high mic level setting. I'm still thinking, though, that its an unusual situation when the mic level needs to be turned all the way down to balance properly with the undersaddle pickup. Its possible that the UST is under-performing for some reason - perhaps one of the reasons that I've already mentioned.



A. MIC LEVEL CONTROL (Adjusts the level of the Tru •
Mic relative to the level of the Element)
IMPORTANT: Setting this control correctly is vital to the
sound of the Anthem system.

Play through a P.A. or acoustic amplifier while you
are making adjustments. A small flat-head jeweler’s
screwdriver will be needed.
Your amplified tone should be well balanced and true to
the acoustic sound and feel of the guitar. If it lacks clarity
and top-end, increase the mic’s level by turning the
control clockwise. Back it off slightly If you experience
excessive handling noise and/or brightness

Last edited by guitaniac; 02-21-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:30 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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I should add that I never did get a completely satisfying UST/mic balance with my last Anthem SL installation. I need to EQ down a lot of low-mid tubbiness and a bit of high-end brittleness to get the tone which I prefer. My suspicion is that the Anthem SL system tends to be overly strong around the crossover frequency of 250Hz - the frequency where both the UST and the mic are contributing some of the combined signal.

Last edited by guitaniac; 02-21-2018 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:48 AM
Jack Orion Jack Orion is offline
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I've got the anthem sl in four guitars and they all have some handling noise to some extent that I can hear at home though my amp and direct to my computer but it's never been an issue live - in fact I often get lots of compliments on my guitars plugged in tone.

One thing that is worth noting is that I've found the mic volume screw adjuster to be VERY sensitive - it's a tiny movement between, not enough and too much, and I've spent a good amount of time with all of my guitars getting the adjustment screw to the right point for each guitar so that the tonal balance is right - on all the guitars (MArtin OM, Collings OM, Lowden S, Yamaha LL) the adjustment screw is just under halfway up but on the Lowden and Collings it's backed off a 'tiny' amount more...
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:11 AM
javierj javierj is offline
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Thanks a lot everyone for all the replies! I really appreciate it!

About the handling noise, I just realized that it only comes mostly from the satin finish back and sides of my guitar, mainly when I put on the guitar to play with the strap. I agree that once I start playing, it really isn't a problem.

I have not had the chance to play it live yet, only played it solo at home.

I still need to tweak/eq a little bit more my mixer and LR Baggs PARA DI around the 250 HZ and also the higher frequencies to get it to where I like it, take off some higher frequencies brittleness and get to a sweet spot. I do feel that I am getting closer. I did have my high frequencies of the mixer and Para Acoustic DI box flat. I am going to try to back off a little on those higher frequencies and then turn up the little Tru Mic screw and see how it sounds.

Last edited by javierj; 02-23-2018 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:16 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javierj View Post
Thanks a lot everyone for all the replies! I really appreciate it!

About the handling noise, I just realized it that it only comes mostly from the satin finish back of my guitar, mainly when I put on the guitar to play with the strap. I agree that once I start playing, it really isn't a problem.

I have not had the chance to play it live yet, only played it solo at home.

I still need to tweak/eq a little bit more my mixer, eq and PARA DI around the 250 HZ and higher frequencies to get it to where I like it, a sweet spot. I do feel that I am getting closer. I did have my high frequencies of the mixer and Para Acoustic DI box flat. I am going to try to back off a little on those higher frequencies and then turn up the little Tru Mic screw and see how it sounds.
That's the one disadvantage of satin. I do quite like the feel and I feel as though it let's the guitar breathe more but it can bit problematic for recording or natural pickups.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:16 AM
javierj javierj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
Its possible that the UST is under-performing for some reason - perhaps one of the reasons that I've already mentioned. [/B][/I]
I actually checked that, but maybe I said it wrong when I made my original post. I think the UST is performing great, since it is reproducing very good all those low frequencies with good amount of volume.

The reason that I mentioned on my original post about having to turn the Truc Mic screw all the way down, was not because it was to loud as compared to the UST, but because it was too bright the whole overall sound and also because of the handling noise that I noticed but now I know it is normal of this system and that when I start playing is not a big issue. Actually since the first time I played it when everything was flat on the LR Baggs PADI and mixer, first thing I notice was a strong response on the low frequencies, so from the UST.

I am going to try and back off a little on the Presence and Treble knobs of LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI and also the high frequency knob of the mixer which are all flat right now. and then turn up a little the Tru Mic screw and see how it goes from there.

Also I have check each individual string volume / string separation and it is excellent. I am quite surprised that it end up being like that, since I ended up choosing to leave the Bob Colosi bone saddle for the UST, instead of using the stock tusq saddle that came with the guitar. I did a lot of reading on this before installing this system, and found out that a consistent, good piece of bone saddle like Bob Colosi's and good profesional installation, will not affect individual string volume / separation with a UST and thankfully that was my case!

Last edited by javierj; 02-21-2018 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:56 AM
javierj javierj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
I should add that I never did get a completely satisfying UST/mic balance with my last Anthem SL installation. I need to EQ down a lot of low-mid tubbiness and a bit of high-end brittleness to get the tone which I prefer. My suspicion is that the Anthem SL system tends to be overly strong around the crossover frequency of 250Hz - the frequency where both the UST and the mic are contributing some of the combined signal.

I was thinking about that yesterday. I feel the same way. Good to know others have had this. I felt like I needed to EQ down quite a bit from like 100Hz to 250Hz, where I feel is quite ''boomey''

But I do feel like I am getting to close to have it sounding great.

Good thing is that I know it is a great pickup/mic system and that it was professionally installed by a really skilled and well trained tech, so I should be getting to that sound sweet spot soon. I thought of installing it myself, but I knew it would come to this point where I would be wondering if I did something wrong and that could be causing an issue, that's why I decided to pay a premium for a expert installation, someone that I have dealt with several years and that has done all kinds of guitar tech works.

Last edited by javierj; 02-21-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:08 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
I should add that I never did get a completely satisfying UST/mic balance with my last Anthem SL installation. I need to EQ down a lot of low-mid tubbiness and a bit of high-end brittleness to get the tone which I prefer. My suspicion is that the Anthem SL system tends to be overly strong around the crossover frequency of 250Hz - the frequency where both the UST and the mic are contributing some of the combined signal.
I found this as well. I often wonder what the tru-mic would sound like when combined with another pickup. I know people have tried this but it's something I need to hear in person. The SL just always seem to sound too hi-fi for my liking. The biggest disappointment for me was the overall lack of bass provided by the Element. I have always found the Element to be a bit thin/bright. It has an added presence that maybe is a bit too much when paired with the tru-mic.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:14 PM
javierj javierj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I found this as well. I often wonder what the tru-mic would sound like when combined with another pickup. I know people have tried this but it's something I need to hear in person. The SL just always seem to sound too hi-fi for my liking. The biggest disappointment for me was the overall lack of bass provided by the Element. I have always found the Element to be a bit thin/bright. It has an added presence that maybe is a bit too much when paired with the tru-mic.
Yeah I guess that maybe it is kinda off bright, but I feel maybe more coming from the Tru Mic part.

Anyway I think that it can be EQued by removing some of the high frequencies from the mixer and my PADI and be able to achieve a great sound.

I am going keep on tweaking some knobs.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:51 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Funny, I don't experience much, if any, noise from handling either my 6 or 12 string acoustics that have the SL installed...

Turning the screw clockwise increases the True-Mic's presence in the mix, and, as someone stated, that tiny screw is VERY sensitive. Took me quite a while to get the sound I wanted with that control.

In the SL (contrary to one reply), the UST portion handles ONLY the low freq's and there's no way to change that... the True-Mic handles everything above the lows, but it isn't a "hard-shelf" control, so there is a bit of overlap. I find that I prefer MORE of the UST than less, with both of my guitars, but as the years have gone by, I've dialed in a bit more of the True-Mic.

One important thing to do is to SET THE BALANCE WITH THE SYSTEM THROUGH WHICH YOU WILL PLAY THE MOST... "one size" is NOT going to fit all, with this pickup. As I play primarily through my Bose L1 Model II, I have mine set for that unit; I'm fortunate that the same setting sounds equally good with my AER Compact 60 as well.

I would suggest that you work with the pickup without anything in the chain adjusted anywhere from "flat"... actually, it would be best to set the thing WITHOUT ANYTHING in the signal chain that is an "addition". The Anthem IS a pre-amped signal, so using outboard pre-amps is both redundant and a bit tricky to configure for the sound you want.

Once you have the pickup sounding good to you (or as good as you can get it), then start tweaking the various controls on the PARA DI to finish... be sure to set your gain stages correctly - google "gain staging" and check it out, if you aren't certain - and then set that gain on the first piece of equipment the signal encounters, then do each additional "downstream" piece of gear. I've noticed that my Anthems sound weak, thin and brittle when I've plugged into others' systems and not had the input gain adjusted to suit the Anthem.

Another thing to do is do all of these adjustments WITHOUT any FX in the mix... add them later, once you get everything dialed in.

Remember, EVERYTHING you do to that signal is going change the output sound; if you don't start "from square one" with controls set flat, you won't know what is doing what, exactly.

I've been very happy with the "stage sound" from the Anthem SL for 7 or 8 years now; I'm sure that you will find a great tone from yours with some work.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes...
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