#1
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Intonation and tuning
Hey all, I'm having some tuning issues with my guitar and I'd love some advice. I have a Larrivee D-02...it's mostly been sitting in its case the last few years but I finally finished grad school and have more time to play.
I typically tune with a Snark and then finish by ear...when I do though, first position will be in tune, and by the 12th fret it's definitely off. It's annoying trying to move while playing and when I capo at say the 5th or 7th, I have to retune. Is this normal...am I being picky? If it needs some repair, what would I be looking at? I bought it new at a store nearby and I have some good shops I could take it to. Thanks! |
#2
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Intonation and tuning
When was the last time you changed strings? I only ask because you say it's been sitting for years. Not trying to be disrespectful or rude.
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#3
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On an electric guitar, you can usually adjust the bridge saddles forward or back to take care of small intonation discrepancies, but that's not possible on an acoustic bridge (with a plastic saddle strip). If the tuning discrepancy is very small, it may just be that your action is too high, and pressing the strings down to the frets is making them sharp at higher frets (because fretting them is stretching them). Try measuring the distance between nut and 12th fret (fretwire), and 12th fret and bridge (saddle); they should be identical, give or take a mm. If not, there's your problem. If they are identical - and the intonation errors are significant - your problem is something else (and somewhat mystifying). A wrongly set bridge is a rare manufacturing error, but I have seen it once or twice. It would be surprising in a Larrivee, IMO, but I can't think of anything else that would explain those symptoms. It's a serious error that shop you bought it from would be responsible for fixing - free of charge, or they give you another guitar. But a few years down the line, I don't know how they'd respond to that. If you still have the receipt, it would be worth a try, at least; if I'm right, you've certainly been sold goods below the quality you paid for. But of course you could also take it somewhere else, for an unbiased opinion, and an assessment of how much it would cost to fix. You may find it is just a set-up matter, and getting that done is cheap and worthwhile. But if it's the bridge it's more serious. If you get no joy from where you bought it, I'd suggest contacting Larrivee themselves. (It's obviously not a problem you've caused yourself!)
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. Last edited by JonPR; 02-20-2015 at 05:03 AM. |
#4
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I agree with the above. As strings get old and worn out the intonation suffers, try changing them first.
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#5
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I've never known old strings to cause intonation issues - except on classical strings where windings begin to unravel, and then the (tiny) effects on intonation are the least of your worries!
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#6
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I tend to go very long periods without changing and at some point after many months the intonation goes haywire. Before I recently changed strings I was playing 8+ months old strings and they were out of tune at the 5th fret. I'm talking about nylons here but the trebles are the worst for me.
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#7
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It's true I don't play the nylon-string that often (maybe once a week), so wear is not a big issue, but still it's literally years before I feel the need to change those top 3. And when I do, it's more out of guilt or duty than because their sound or intonation is noticeably worsening.
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#8
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The path I'd run would be to since the guitar has been stored for several years, to bring it to 40-45% humidity for a couple weeks in the case when it's not being played (if you have not been religiously, regularly and deliberately humidifying it). This should resolve any action issues due to dry-ness. After the humidity is stabilized, I'd put on fresh strings on it, and check intonation. If it's as good as I want, I'd leave it alone. If it's still playing out of tune, I'd take the guitar for a setup from a specialist/tech/luthier - with an emphasis on compensating the saddle to get the intonation as close as possible. |
#9
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thank you all
Thanks for your thoughtful replies...I'll go through them and see what I can do on my own before taking it to have it tuned. To your points/questions
- completely reasonable to ask if I've changed strings lately. It actually did have the same set for a few years but I put a fresh set on a few weeks ago (night/day difference of sound of course) - I used to do a terrible job of humidifying my guitar in the winter but I never had any damage (fortunately) and for the last year I've been extremely careful about keeping a humidifier filled during our dry winters I'll look into it a bit more based on everyone's advice and follow up, thanks again. |
#10
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#11
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__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#12
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I would try not tuning by ear.
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#13
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Hi grathan…
Do you ever tune your guitar using an electronic tuner, and then tweak any strings to fine tune them afterwards? That is tuning by ear… I don't think more-accurate electronic tuners used on imperfect instruments (which all guitars are) has to be the the 'final word'. Nor does tuning by ear mean it's evil. Some people have very good ears. |
#14
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I've tuned by ear and it never ends well. I can distinctly hear the difference a string makes as it comes into perfect tuning with another string. You take for granted the string you tuned to is in tune with the others. Plus the fact that when you tune to another string you usually use a perfect 5th, or octave which means you're fretting a string which goes back to parts of the above discussion about finger pressure and fret height changing the accuracy of the pitch. Not to mention the imperfections of intonation with non-compensated nuts.
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#15
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voiceofsticks: proper measurements and your mouth held correctly and any issues with your instrument will fall to logic. Rest assured that whatever it is is eminently repairable.
Interesting twist this thread has taken. I have learned so much. Please pardon me as I take a break to toss out all my Leadbelly, Joan Baez, and Flying Burrito Brothers recordings. They obviously could never have managed to play in tune without the wonderful electronic devices I presently own. BIAB . . . . . .
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-donh- *everything* is a tone control |