how is the action adjusted on a resonator guitar?

Alex W · #1 08-09-2010, 07:52 PM

I'm primarily thinking of National style biscuit cone instruments here. If you purchased a resonator sight unseen and decided the action was too high, how could that be adjusted short of messing with the neck? Given that the saddle is on the biscuit, which in turns sits on top of the cone, it seems like that would limit your options for adjustment. Can they remove the biscuit and file it down or something like that?

Iolas · #2 08-09-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex W

I'm primarily thinking of National style biscuit cone instruments here. If you purchased a resonator sight unseen and decided the action was too high, how could that be adjusted short of messing with the neck? Given that the saddle is on the biscuit, which in turns sits on top of the cone, it seems like that would limit your options for adjustment. Can they remove the biscuit and file it down or something like that?

Yeah, I in fact just got a new national cone for my epi biscuit.
The cone comes with a biscuit that is still uncut..you shave it down to your liking.

blue · #3 08-09-2010, 08:03 PM

depends on how old the guitar is. Newer single cones, remove the "strap", the handguard over the biscuit. There are small allen bolts holding it on. Then you simply file into the saddle like you would file a nut. There are some tricks. You want the string to sit on a "chisel" point, not on the whole width of the saddle. Most also agree that you want a V shape tapering from where the string contacts the saddle toward the nut. Like a funnel. I do that, and have found that especially on the 1 and 2nd that matters. Not so much on the wounds, but I do it for all the strings.

Some prefer the strings to contact the saddle at the very back of the saddle. Some go for a kind of compensated situation where each string is set the way they want it. I stick pretty simple on my normal Nationals, but found it necessary to do some compensating on my Baritone national.

You have a "real" original national, you have to actually take the cover off to do the work. Not a big deal with the National tailpiece, but be very careful. If you loosen tension on one side of the tailpiece only it could break, or the very least twist.

Alex W · #4 08-09-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iolas

Yeah, I in fact just got a new national cone for my epi biscuit.
The cone comes with a biscuit that is still uncut..you shave it down to your liking.

Can you give us a report on how the new cone improved your Epi?

Anyway, I have my eye on a Republic Highway 61, and I was wondering what I would do if I ordered one and found the action too high for my liking. I mainly play a reso fingerstyle so I don't like the action quite as high as a dedicated slide player would.

jmcphail · #5 08-09-2010, 08:13 PM

Here is some pretty good resonator specific information -

http://www.littlebrotherblues.com/Ge...tup/index.html

blue · #6 08-09-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcphail

Here is some pretty good resonator specific information -

http://www.littlebrotherblues.com/Ge...tup/index.html

Wow! Thanks! I hadn't seen that! I just downloaded his string spacing template! I went through quite a bit of work redoing one of my tricones. The 1st and 6th were WAY more inboard than they needed to be. This would have saved me lots of "stop and measure" time... Set the outer strings and you're done!

jmcphail · #7 08-09-2010, 08:57 PM

That is good to hear!

Iolas · #8 08-09-2010, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex W

Can you give us a report on how the new cone improved your Epi?

Anyway, I have my eye on a Republic Highway 61, and I was wondering what I would do if I ordered one and found the action too high for my liking. I mainly play a reso fingerstyle so I don't like the action quite as high as a dedicated slide player would.

Yeah, I still gotta take it down to my luthier and have him set it all up for me.

blue · #9 08-10-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex W

Can you give us a report on how the new cone improved your Epi?

Anyway, I have my eye on a Republic Highway 61, and I was wondering what I would do if I ordered one and found the action too high for my liking. I mainly play a reso fingerstyle so I don't like the action quite as high as a dedicated slide player would.

I wouldn't take it much lower than 3/32nds. There's a real critical issue of the break angle of the strings over the cone. Have you checked out the Hot Rod Resonators? Lenny over at Vintage Nationals has started his own line, and the setup is done by Mark Shoenberger. The Man in resonator repair. A little more expensive, and full size unlike the 61. But Lenny has done a ton for the resonator community, and I have full faith in his efforts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcrG-...eature=related

Alex W · #10 08-10-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

I wouldn't take it much lower than 3/32nds. There's a real critical issue of the break angle of the strings over the cone. Have you checked out the Hot Rod Resonators? Lenny over at Vintage Nationals has started his own line, and the setup is done by Mark Shoenberger. The Man in resonator repair. A little more expensive, and full size unlike the 61. But Lenny has done a ton for the resonator community, and I have full faith in his efforts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcrG-...eature=related

Oh yes, and if there was a short scale Hot Rod Steel along the lines of the Highway 61 I'd definitely be interested in that. (i.e. I am looking at the Highway 61 specifically because it has such a short scale.) I have read all about the Hot Rod Steel models and the involvement by Shoenberger. In fact I often go to the Vintage Nationals website to watch the videos and gnerally drool over the selection. If I got a Republic at all I would almost certainly order it from Lenny.

zombywoof · #11 08-10-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

I wouldn't take it much lower than 3/32nds. There's a real critical issue of the break angle of the strings over the cone. Have you checked out the Hot Rod Resonators? Lenny over at Vintage Nationals has started his own line, and the setup is done by Mark Shoenberger. The Man in resonator repair. A little more expensive, and full size unlike the 61. But Lenny has done a ton for the resonator community, and I have full faith in his efforts.

+1 on all counts.

I have not played one yet but those Hot Rod Steel guitars look like they just might be the ones that finally bridge the gap between the el cheapo variety and the Nationals and Amistars. They are definitely worth a look-see.

zombywoof · #12 08-10-2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex W

I'm primarily thinking of National style biscuit cone instruments here. If you purchased a resonator sight unseen and decided the action was too high, how could that be adjusted short of messing with the neck? Given that the saddle is on the biscuit, which in turns sits on top of the cone, it seems like that would limit your options for adjustment. Can they remove the biscuit and file it down or something like that?

One trick you might try if you want to shave the saddle down a bit is to string the guitar lacing the strings in though the top of the tailpiece rather than from underneath. This will help avoid that nasty rattle you get when the break angle is too shallow.

blue · #13 08-10-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zombywoof

One trick you might try if you want to shave the saddle down a bit is to string the guitar lacing the strings in though the top of the tailpiece rather than from underneath. This will help avoid that nasty rattle you get when the break angle is too shallow.

It's a wee bit dangerous though... Depends on a lot of factors... Of course if he crushes the cone, it's an excuse to buy an upgrade NRP cone! I've done it myself Zombywoof, so I'm not saying it's a terribly big deal, but as you said, I did it to avoid having to buy a new biscuit on an old one where the angle was too soft. It actually needed a reset... But you know how it is. You hate to "break the seal" on an old resonator if you can avoid it.

zombywoof · #14 08-10-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

But you know how it is. You hate to "break the seal" on an old resonator if you can avoid it.

Going through it right now - I need a new biscuit but have not been able to bring myself to remove the original on my Duolian.

blue · #15 08-12-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zombywoof

Going through it right now - I need a new biscuit but have not been able to bring myself to remove the original on my Duolian.

Then don't. Buy a new hotrod cone (they ship with a biscuit since the cones are shorter). Save the original cone and biscuit combo unmolested. Maybe years down the road, after a neck reset or straightening, the original will drop right back in and the angle will be fine. Just a thought.