Two guitars, same design, different wood... Also question about Epiphone Masterbilts

BoneDigger · #1 06-04-2012, 07:23 AM

Sorry for the long question.

I'm new here so please forgive me for asking a question that perhaps gets a little too much air-play.

I presently own an Epiphone Masterbilt DR500P that I absolutely love. It's a great sounding guitar and looks wonderful. This guitar has a solid spruce top and solid maple back and sides. The tone is unbelievably good at low levels.

Now, the issue is this... I also play bluegrass and the maple backed Epi does not project well enough for a good bluegrass jam. I see that Epiphone also sells this same guitar but with a solid mahogany back (DR500M) and a solid rosewood back (DR500R), although the rosewood version seems to be harder to find.

Would the same guitar, with different wood, project better, or does the loudness and tonal quality mainly come from the design, bracing, etc. In other words, am I likely to see a marked improvement with a different wood on this same guitar?

The reason I ask is that nobody seems to sell the Masterbilt series locally, so I can't try them out. I would have to order sight unseen from the web.

Also, can anyone verify or refute the issues I have been reading online about these Masterbilt guitars "splitting" or cracking in various places. I have had no issues with mine but I don't want to have to baby a new guitar that I want to take to jam sessions. I live in a very humid area (east Texas).

If splitting is indeed an issue, I might have to look into another guitar all-together. My price range is less than $1,000 and I have been eying a Guild Gad-150 that sounds pretty good. But, I could save almost $400 if the Epi is the way to go.

I appreciate any and all advice.

Todd

rmyAddison · #2 06-04-2012, 07:30 AM

Welcome to the forum!!

Typically in Bluegrass bands with two guitars the rosewood guitar is the rhythm instrument (warm, lush) and the mahogany is the lead guitar (fundamental, clean).

Volume does count with Bluegrass as amplification is often shared or not used at all, you don't want a quiet guitar (any brand) and you need a dread.

Thinking budget, if you can swing it a used Martin D-18 would be an excellent choice. If you go Epiphone or Guild make sure the guitar has volume and projection, good luck!!

guitararmy · #3 06-04-2012, 08:30 AM

I've owned both the DR-500M and the DR-500R. I liked the more prominent midrange of the rosewood one, but both sounded great. Both of mine were used, and the rosewood one had a small crack near the back center seam at the strap pin end. It was stable for the 2 years I had it.

I still have two Masterbilts and love them. The other guitar you might consider is the Yamaha FG730. I used to have one of those, too.

Jeremy · #4 06-04-2012, 08:31 AM

I didn't get a whole lot of projection out of my DR-500M. It had a sweet tone but wasn't very loud, which surprised me for a dread.

salish · #5 06-04-2012, 10:14 PM

I have an Epi masterbilt EF500R, which I love as an all rounder. I once played an Epi AJ500R (advanced jumbo in spruce & rosewood) and it struck me as something that would do very well at bluegrass. Great sound and projection.

Brant0086 · #6 06-05-2012, 01:06 AM

Most bluegrass guys really want the Martin sound.

The Martin D-16 series made before 1995 are some of the best bang for the buck I can think of. The model numbers are D-16 (A,H,K,M or W.) I own a D-16h and it is LOUD. All of those models are solid mahogany back and sides. Finding a rosewood Martin in your price range might be tough though. I have seen the pre-95 D-16 models go from about $700 - $1200.
There are other bargain guitars out there similar to Martin like Blueridge, Recording King etc. but I am not as familiar with them as many here. This is just my opinion of what I am familiar with as I haven't played a Masterbilt, myself.

Bryant

frankhond · #7 06-05-2012, 01:26 AM

If you like the Gibson sound and want bluegrass, the best choice is the advanced jumbo, they designed it especially for that. It does lead and rhythm.

Fwiw Peter Rowan plays a d18 and he is very much a rhythm player. Its not at all like "you need this wood for that". The design of the guitar is the central point, the wood is more which spice you want.

A j45 is mahogany but generally won't give you bluegrass volume, it's not designed to.

My opinion is that both the Advanced jumbo and d18/d28 are pretty cheap now especially second hand. Save a little more money and skip the epi.

Tony Burns · #8 06-05-2012, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Sorry for the long question.

I'm new here so please forgive me for asking a question that perhaps gets a little too much air-play.

I presently own an Epiphone Masterbilt DR500P that I absolutely love. It's a great sounding guitar and looks wonderful. This guitar has a solid spruce top and solid maple back and sides. The tone is unbelievably good at low levels.

Now, the issue is this... I also play bluegrass and the maple backed Epi does not project well enough for a good bluegrass jam. I see that Epiphone also sells this same guitar but with a solid mahogany back (DR500M) and a solid rosewood back (DR500R), although the rosewood version seems to be harder to find.

Would the same guitar, with different wood, project better, or does the loudness and tonal quality mainly come from the design, bracing, etc. In other words, am I likely to see a marked improvement with a different wood on this same guitar?

The reason I ask is that nobody seems to sell the Masterbilt series locally, so I can't try them out. I would have to order sight unseen from the web.

Also, can anyone verify or refute the issues I have been reading online about these Masterbilt guitars "splitting" or cracking in various places. I have had no issues with mine but I don't want to have to baby a new guitar that I want to take to jam sessions. I live in a very humid area (east Texas).

If splitting is indeed an issue, I might have to look into another guitar all-together. My price range is less than $1,000 and I have been eying a Guild Gad-150 that sounds pretty good. But, I could save almost $400 if the Epi is the way to go.

I appreciate any and all advice.

Todd

Todd this is my take on this situation - probably different than someone elses thoughts -
Sometimes the same model ( or simialar model with different woods ) have a very simalar sound .If your looking for a something with a different sound maybe you should look for something all together different -or a different brand - maybe something like a Martin D-18

BoneDigger · #9 06-05-2012, 08:19 AM

I appreciate the responses guys. I don't have a lot of money to drop on a guitar right now but could probably squeeze together 7-800 and would like something with solid wood. I don't think I can afford a Martin D18 at this time.

I have been looking at a Guild GAD 150 at a local shop and it sounds very good, just a little heavier than I expected. Still, it might be an option.

Todd

montydog · #10 06-05-2012, 08:32 AM

I have the AJ500M and it is a loud guitar and it doesn't need to be picked hard to get the volume out. The AJ500 is a very resonant guitar which I like and I think it would fit in well in a bluegrass band. Russ Barenburg plays one in a lot of the Transatlantic Session programs in bands which feature Gibsons, Martins, Taylors etc and it easily holds it's own. If it's good enough for a great player like him....

I have played the AJ500R which is the same except for Rosewood back and sides. It is much quieter, darker and smoother - not ideal for bluegrass IMHO but great as a singer-songwriter guitar. I have also played the dreadnought 500M and didn't like it as much as the Advanced Jumbo. I have had my Epi for 18 months with no quality issues. I think these were sorted out pretty early in the production run.

I cannot recommend the AJ500M highly enough.

Tunes · #11 06-05-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

I appreciate the responses guys. I don't have a lot of money to drop on a guitar right now but could probably squeeze together 7-800 and would like something with solid wood. I don't think I can afford a Martin D18 at this time.

I have been looking at a Guild GAD 150 at a local shop and it sounds very good, just a little heavier than I expected. Still, it might be an option.

Todd

BoneDigger -

East Texas Bluegrass - hmmm - I'm thinkin' ya don't want to bring a knife to a gun fight. Guilds are nice guitars (I've owned a couple) - but bluegrass cannons they are not. If you can't afford a Martin, perhaps consider a Martin clone. The "clonest" might be a Blueridge (solid wood, made in Asia) and have essentially gotten as close to Martin as they can without a lawsuit. You should be able to pick one up in that range. Used even cheaper. Spruce top is key - either on rosewood (a la D-28) or mahogany (a la D-18). I personally would opt for rosewood b/s.

P.S. I do not think the Epi is the way to go. See first sentence.

leehop71 · #12 06-05-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montydog

I have the AJ500M and it is a loud guitar and it doesn't need to be picked hard to get the volume out. The AJ500 is a very resonant guitar which I like and I think it would fit in well in a bluegrass band. Russ Barenburg plays one in a lot of the Transatlantic Session programs in bands which feature Gibsons, Martins, Taylors etc and it easily holds it's own. If it's good enough for a great player like him....

I have played the AJ500R which is the same except for Rosewood back and sides. It is much quieter, darker and smoother - not ideal for bluegrass IMHO but great as a singer-songwriter guitar. I have also played the dreadnought 500M and didn't like it as much as the Advanced Jumbo. I have had my Epi for 18 months with no quality issues. I think these were sorted out pretty early in the production run.

I cannot recommend the AJ500M highly enough.

+1. Just ordered one! As another possibility can the Larrivee D-03 be gotten for 7 or 8 hundred?

Judson · #13 06-05-2012, 02:30 PM

I played a spruce/rosewood Epi Masterbilt at the shop and although it looked beautiful and had a nice sound, I was less than impressed with the projection/volume. It just didn't have much. I suppose it could have been just this one particular example ... I dunno.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Sorry for the long question.

I'm new here so please forgive me for asking a question that perhaps gets a little too much air-play.

I presently own an Epiphone Masterbilt DR500P that I absolutely love. It's a great sounding guitar and looks wonderful. This guitar has a solid spruce top and solid maple back and sides. The tone is unbelievably good at low levels.

Now, the issue is this... I also play bluegrass and the maple backed Epi does not project well enough for a good bluegrass jam. I see that Epiphone also sells this same guitar but with a solid mahogany back (DR500M) and a solid rosewood back (DR500R), although the rosewood version seems to be harder to find.

Would the same guitar, with different wood, project better, or does the loudness and tonal quality mainly come from the design, bracing, etc. In other words, am I likely to see a marked improvement with a different wood on this same guitar?

The reason I ask is that nobody seems to sell the Masterbilt series locally, so I can't try them out. I would have to order sight unseen from the web.

Also, can anyone verify or refute the issues I have been reading online about these Masterbilt guitars "splitting" or cracking in various places. I have had no issues with mine but I don't want to have to baby a new guitar that I want to take to jam sessions. I live in a very humid area (east Texas).

If splitting is indeed an issue, I might have to look into another guitar all-together. My price range is less than $1,000 and I have been eying a Guild Gad-150 that sounds pretty good. But, I could save almost $400 if the Epi is the way to go.

I appreciate any and all advice.

Todd

leehop71 · #14 06-05-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackville

I played a spruce/rosewood Epi Masterbilt at the shop and although it looked beautiful and had a nice sound, I was less than impressed with the projection/volume. It just didn't have much. I suppose it could have been just this one particular example ... I dunno.

Was it a dread or jumbo Black?

Judson · #15 06-05-2012, 02:32 PM

+1 on Blueridge being a reasonable alternative for a Martin on a budget.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tunes

BoneDigger -

East Texas Bluegrass - hmmm - I'm thinkin' ya don't want to bring a knife to a gun fight. Guilds are nice guitars (I've owned a couple) - but bluegrass cannons they are not. If you can't afford a Martin, perhaps consider a Martin clone. The "clonest" might be a Blueridge (solid wood, made in Asia) and have essentially gotten as close to Martin as they can without a lawsuit. You should be able to pick one up in that range. Used even cheaper. Spruce top is key - either on rosewood (a la D-28) or mahogany (a la D-18). I personally would opt for rosewood b/s.

P.S. I do not think the Epi is the way to go. See first sentence.