Multi-instruments into amp problem

[Liam1694u]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and have a unique question that’s been bugging me for a while. When I gig out with my band I play primarily acoustic guitar. It is an acoustic/electric with an active pickup and I send it to a Behringer Ultracoustic ACX900 amplifier. This amp has two completely independent channels; an instrument channel and a Mic/Instrument channel. Things get interesting with amplification at this point because I also play electric guitar and ukulele at shows as well…all through the one amp. I had a good setup when it with just the acoustic and uke. I would plug the acoustic into the instrument channel and the uke went into the mic channel. I actually feed the uke through a Behringer V-tone Acoustic Driver pedal that has an XLR out to go into the mic input channel on the amp (it works pretty well).

The problem comes when I started introducing the electric guitar into the mix (which has passive P90 pickups). I’ve tried using an A/B switch to run both guitars into the main channel, but I can’t both guitars to a place where they both sound acceptable (yes, I’ll settle for acceptable over good at this time). The problem is I have everything setup for the acoustic, which already seems to want to overwhelm the amp (I have the bass EQ down all the way on the amp and it still thumps), and when I switch to the electric, I just can’t get it loud enough. I crank all the knobs on the electric and it just doesn’t have it. Meanwhile the volume on the acoustic is on a hair trigger. It goes from 0 to 11, just by moving the volume slider a little bit.

My best guess that that the amp can either be tuned for the active pickup of the acoustic guitar or the passive pickups of an electric, but not both. The one is just way too hot compared to the other. So I want to know what the best approach is to getting those signals to fall more balanced with each other before they go into the amp to minimize the amount of fiddling between songs. Should I boost the electric guitar signal with some sort of preamp? Or does that color it too much and keep me from keeping a clean sound? Should I use some sort of signal pad or a DI box (I know nothing about them) on the acoustic guitar? I’d love to hear people’s input and thoughts on the subject. I know very little about impedance, etc.

Currently I am using the A/B switch in front of the V-Tone and feed both the electric guitar and ukulele into the XLR microphone channel on the amp. It works OK. But I gotta do some heavy tweaks between instrument changes. If I use a ¼-inch input cable between the V-tone and the microphone channel it doesn’t work. Has to be the XLR.

Three different instruments in one amp, and I want to be able to quickly switch between them all with minimal fiddling. I know I am asking a lot of a single amplifier, and some of you probably think I’m crazy, stupid, or both. but It’s what I got to work with and purchasing/hauling another amp isn’t really an option. So I kindly ask people please refrain from the “just buy a second amp” reply. Besides, part of the fun is the challenge of solving the problem. Thanks!

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Liam1694u

I know I am asking a lot of a single amplifier, and some of you probably think I’m crazy, stupid, or both. but It’s what I got to work with and purchasing/hauling another amp isn’t really an option. So I kindly ask people please refrain from the “just buy a second amp” reply. Besides, part of the fun is the challenge of solving the problem. Thanks!

There are several ways to approach this. A couple of thoughts and one approach.

1. This is an acoustic amp, meaning it's basically an FRFR speaker system (sort of a mini-PA, really). You can get an OK sound from the acoustic because, as you say, it's an active pickup system. I think you are running the uke through another box in front of the amp, so it is also sending a ready-to-handle signal to the amp. You can't expect to get a similar result running an electric with passive pickups, unaltered, into this system (as you are discovering). This is basically why electrics into acoustic amps sound like crap except for clean noodling at low volumes at home.

2. So, you could get something for the electric like the Tech 21 Blonde pedal and go guitar-to-pedal-to-amp. Now you're giving your signal "character" via the pedal, and the amp is just making it louder (which is all it's really good for).

3. You could run all three instrument setups, then, into a small 3-5 channel mixer and then into either of the inputs on the amp and control relative volumes and, to some degree, EQ that way.

There are probably more elegant solutions, but I think that would work without breaking the bank.

[Steve DeRosa]

Using Paleolith's suggestions I would do it this way:

• Dedicate one channel of your choice to acoustic instruments; run them into a small mixer, balance them for relative volume and individual EQ, and use the channel controls for overall volume and compensation for house acoustics
• Run your electric through a Tech 21 FlyRig 5 - provides all the bells and whistles you're likely to need in a package that fits inside many guitar cases - and then into the second channel

- or you could just bite the bullet, get yourself one of these, and save a lot of money and grief in the long run:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Champ40

At 19 lbs. you could backpack it, it'll sound a heluva lot better than what you're using now, and you could give the uke its own channel - a win-win situation all around...

[Liam1694u]

Thank you, Paleolith54. That was very insightful. Bullet No. 1 basically summarizes my problem, and in just a few short sentences. Unlike my four long paragraphs

I'll look into some of those options you mentioned. Someone else on another forum mentioned trying a mini mixer at the front end.

[Liam1694u]

Thanks, Steve as well, for the input. I'll look into those options.

As I said before I can get an OK sound with the electric/uke sharing the same channel. One of the reasons I am trying to get both the acoustic and electric on the same channel is I want to feed them into the same pedalboard.

Since this is an "acoustic" guitar forum, I wasn't sure what reception I would get mentioning that I put my acoustic though so many effects before the amp. I wanted to feel out the waters first.

A little backstory here. Part of this is an effort to reduce and minimize my setup. I don't need to run duplicate pedals for two instruments, and I'm cutting it down to the smallest board I can get. So if I can double up on duties, the better. Over the past few months I've been slowly replacing my pedals with minis to help cut things down. So it's in my interest to keep both guitars running into the same channel.


My band plays an eclectic mix of blues, rock, ska, country, and the list goes on... But we are only a three piece band with no drums or bass. Just two guitar players and a sax/harmonica player. It has been quite the challenge over the years in tweaking songs to fit our arrangement. We all pull multiple duties and break A LOT of standard rules of thumb to achieve the sound we need on each song. it's a lot of fun...but a bit of a headache at times too.

Anyways, I always appreciate when people take the time to help, so thanks.

[Liam1694u]

Thanks guys for the input. I think I solved it. As one person on another forum pointed out, the P90s are gonna be very flat going into and acoustic amp. There was no high end and it sounded like the guitar was underwater. I had an old Boss GE-7 EQ pedal lying around. If I feed the electric into that in front of the A/B switch, it solves my problem. I adjusted the EQ to bring up the high end and some of the mid range, and has to crank the master level on it quite a bit, but it works.

I do plan on replacing the amp at some point down the road, but it will still probably be a single amp setup. this will work for now, and I thank everyone for their help. If their is anybody in the Pittsburgh area out there, come down to Nied's Hotel tonight (8PM) and see how it sounds for yourself!

THANKS!

[Bob Womack]

One more suggestion: get yourself an amp modeler for the electric and run that into a channel. A good one for this purpose is the Line6 POD HD500X. There are newer ones that interface with an iPad if that is more your style.

Bob

[fuman]

My guess is it's the amp. I have a Genz-Benz Shenandoah with two channels. Sounds great for acoustic and vocals. But I got into a band as an electric player and didn't have an electric amp. Turned off the tweeter, added a drive pedal (When needed) but mostly just used my Zoom acoustic pedal for effects. I was mostly playing rhythm but it was a jam band so I got to stretch out a fair amount. It sounded real good. You can find these for not a lot of money (mine cost me $200). IT IS HEAVY.

[Paully]

Try a Behringer ADi21.

[martingitdave]

I bought the Line 6 Firehawk FX to run my electric guitar through. You go from the pedal board to any PA, full range speaker, or acoustic or electric amp via the XLR out and then choose the right setting for your output. Then, you run your acoustic instruments with piezo pickups through the instrument channel on the amp. You can purchase a cheap 2 channel Yamaha mixer that will take the UKE and guitar. Or, one of my current favorites, the Zoom A3 that has excellent effects and two inputs. One for the pickup and another for "mic" that has a combo input. That would provide verb, chorus, delay etc., and acoustic modeling for the guitar. Zoom also makes a product similar to the Line 6 for electric guitar. Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LSemmens]

I had an ACX 1000 which is very similar to your setup. (I blew it up by playing bass through it) When it was working I found that the best setup for electric was to run it into the first input (the one with the XLR plug) and adjust it for that. Plug your acoustics into the other input and adjust for that. IIRC you would also have a four button foot switch to change effects on the fly (not that I found the effects in the amp that fantastic but they may give you some of the colour that you need) and just program the pedal to switch to the best sounding effect for the guitar you are playing.

[LSemmens]

Just had a quick look at the ACX 900 and it is somewhat different to the 1000 so my comments above may be moot.

[MC5C]

Always remember that an acoustic amp has a flat frequency response while an electric guitar amp has a scooped midrange to make the magnetic pickup sound right. You need the right amp to match the guitar and have a good sound. You could achieve your goal of one channel and the same pedal board for both by front-ending the electric with an amp emulator that will give the electric the scooped frequency response it wants.

[harpspitfire]

to be honest- i think its the amp, i played an ac1800 and wasnt very impressed at all with it, trying to get a good mic sound with a guitar mixed was a disaster, but i did have something that worked 200% better at a fraction on the cost- a used behringer pmx200 mixer-500 watt ($50 used) and 2 10" pa speakers with horns ($40 used) with the acoustic being active and so many settings on the mixer, it made a great acoustic amp