DAWS ??? Amyone still use them ??

[Doug Young]

I have to correct my comments, i got model numbers confused. I had the AW4416. Ty's comment still applies, tho, Id forgotten that i needed to have the manual handy everytime i tried to record :-)

Kev, thanks for the clarification on DAW. What meant to say is that the term doesnt just mean a hardware unit. So unless youre using tape, we're all using DAWs of one kind or another, anything from an iphone to ProTools.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Trevor B.

Hey Tony, Just wondering if you've ever found yourself frustrated by the inability of "downtown studios" to capture the real sound of your acoustic guitar. I most definitely have. Most big studios, for the obvious reason, gravitate to the musical genres that will earn them the most money. Acoustic guitar music, whether played on steel strings or nylon is not one of those, so the knowledge of our instrument and how to record it is sadly lacking. There are several examples on this very forum of acoustic guitarists getting far better acoustic guitar recordings than any major studios I'm aware of. It is for this reason that I've jumped into the home recording option with both feet. I'm finding the learning curve really steep but fascinating as well. With every article I read, video I watch and recording experiment I do I get closer to the real sound of my instruments.

I have not gotten to the point that I want to make a commercial CD. I do record my own playing for practice or to save an idea. However I am not really satisfied with the overall sound from the perspective of wanting to send any such recording to other people. I have a friend who likes to sing and essentially does a CD of karaoke around the holiday season to send to friends and family. He sends me a CD every year. To me, it sounds as if he superimposed his singing on top of a pre-recorded track, which is exactly what he did. His singing is fine, basically a "crooner" well suited to the Great American Songbook. I know that he is working very hard to get the backing track and his voice to blend better. Maybe some day he will get it, but I think a few hours in a studio with an engineer who knows what s/he is doing would solve the problem.

I did a recording some years back for a compilation CD that several people contributed tracks to and that seemed to come out well enough to blend in with what everybody else did on their tracks. It was obviously "home grown", and it is that sense that I am talking about. There is a "professional polished sheen" that somebody who really knows what s/he is doing can get that I am as yet unable to get on my own. I am sure thee is a variety of reason for that, from lack of recording skills to room acoustics, to everything between the guitar and the finished recording. That is a lot of territory.

I know that even the Sony PCM-D100 itself is capable of really good recordings because I have heard samples of what it can do. But the person doing it still needs to know what s/he is doing, and that just seems to be a constant in the equation.

Tony

[Trevor B.]

Yes, Tony, I agree with your basic premise about the importance of a knowledgeable sound engineer at the controls and the "professional polished sheen" that separates the amateurs from the real pros. Nevertheless, I stick by my point that many high-priced studio engineers do not do the acoustic guitar justice. That said, I'm putting several hours a day into my home recording enterprise and have been at it for a year now so it's definitely a big undertaking.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Trevor B.

Yes, Tony, I agree with your basic premise about the importance of a knowledgeable sound engineer at the controls and the "professional polished sheen" that separates the amateurs from the real pros. Nevertheless, I stick by my point that many high-priced studio engineers do not do the acoustic guitar justice. That said, I'm putting several hours a day into my home recording enterprise and have been at it for a year now so it's definitely a big undertaking.

I remember back i the early 90s I had a Sequential Circuits 2002 rack sampler. I tried making samples of my (then) classical guitar. I could never get a recording of samples that I was satisfied with. You could purchase studio samples that sounded fine, so obviously they were doing something that I just wasn't capable of doing. I have no reason to argue that there are high-priced studio engineers that can't do an acoustic guitar justice. I know that some years ago (and maybe there still is) there was a guy who had a small studio that specialized in recording acoustic guitar and acoustic music. That would indicate to me that it is a different skill from recording other types of instruments and settings.

Tony

[Doug Young]

Like any profession, there are good recording engineers and bad, and there are engineers and studios with more or less experience with any specific genre. Ive recorded at several studios where the enigeers specialized in acoustic music, and found the experience invaluable. You pick up a lot, just by watching what they do, and asking questions. Highly recommended. You could spend forever trying to figure stuff out on your own, that a profesional engineeer could just show you in minutes.

What i have found tho, is that few engineers are as picky as i am about my own music. Thats not surprising: when i ocassionally record others, the shoes on the other foot, and after a take or two, the performance sounds fine to me (as an engineer) while the performer may not be satisfied. I dont know whats in their head that they,re trying to achieve. In a pro studio, your probably also watching the clock, the engineer is watching the clock, trying not to waste time.

More than the once, ive done a few takes, and the engineer, or producer, says "perfect, that's a wrap" when ive known i could do better. Recording at home you're in total control, and no one will know if it took 1 take, or a hundred to capture a tune. You can record, practice, record, try another guitar, practice, rearrange the tune, and record, ad nauseum, it just depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. But there's also the danger that your just doing the same wrong thing over and over and will never get what youre shooting for. A combination of studying, experimenting, getting feedback, and learning from others by seeing how a pro does it makes a pretty effective combination.

[louparte]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

I reviewed the AW1600. What a weird box.....I think it took 7 button pushes to playback a file that you had just recorded.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ah, Yamaha electronic musical device design at its best! I'd love to read that review. They got it down to seven button pushes, just to play back, eh? Good for them. Go team Yamaha!

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Like any profession, there are good recording engineers and bad, and there are engineers and studios with more or less experience with any specific genre. Ive recorded at several studios where the enigeers specialized in acoustic music, and found the experience invaluable. You pick up a lot, just by watching what they do, and asking questions. Highly recommended. You could spend forever trying to figure stuff out on your own, that a profesional engineeer could just show you in minutes.

No question; a competent professional in any field has lots to offer a neophyte and in most cases to another competent professional. However; in my experience (and I concede it's not a universal truth), most professional studios I've worked in have not done the acoustic guitar justice. Our instrument is a very different animal from electric guitars, electric basses, midi instruments and so on. My conclusion is that sound engineering, like so many occupations, is highly specialized and becoming more so with each passing day. This is neither good, nor bad, but rather a reflection of the pace at which technology changes. Ironically, the digital/computer technology that until recently I regarded as a negative influence on music generally (and still do to some extent) is making it possible for me to chart my own home recording course.

[Doug Young]

The more specialized, or non-mainstream the music, the more you want to choose carefully. I know Fran Guidry ran into issues with his CD a few years ago, when he tried a mastering house that turned out to be from the school of "make it as loud as possible", and had to have it redone. When I mastered my first CD, I had it done by a place that specializes in acoustic music, by an engineer who had mastered Al Petteway's CDs and Tommy Emmanuel's. My 2nd CD was done by an engineer that was also a guitarist and who had studied with Alex de Grassi. So in both cases, I knew the engineers knew what I wanted and could deliver way more than I needed or warranted.

But for sure, no one knows or cares as much about your music as you. I first dove headfirst into home recording after recording some early fingerstyle tunes at an excellent studio with a fantastic engineer, totally tuned into acoustic music. They did nothing wrong at all, but the experience convinced me I would only be happy with the results if (for better or worse) I took total control over the process. Leading me, to come back to the topic, deep into "DAW" land :-)

[KevWind]

Actually there is no debate here or right or wrong, both approaches are in fact completely and totally viable.

Desiring to learn to record and mix is totally viable. It is like any other craft/art, it is something that requires time and commitment to get proficient at . Like any other such endeavor it is something that can represent a lifetime of learning and improvement.

Deciding not to spend the required time but to focus that time on playing and performing is also a totally viable choice.

They are simply personal choices nothing more.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Actually there is no debate here or right or wrong, both approaches are in fact completely and totally viable.

Yeah, I'm actually arguing that they're complementary. You can wander around lost for a long time (quite possibly having the time of your life!) trying to figure out things, while a session or two watching an experienced engineer could cause a Eureka moment.

[Wengr]

I think we are very lucky to be doing what we do at the time in history.
For one thing, it is possible to get a good recording of the acoustic guitar at home. It will take some time and money, but it is achievable. Try that with drums or a band.
Also, in the relatively small world of fingerstyle guitar, I find most of the leading players to be very approachable and generous with information. You can reach out to them and they will often share their tracking styles, who mastered a certain track, etc.
I think it's a great time to be doing what we do.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, I'm actually arguing that they're complementary. You can wander around lost for a long time (quite possibly having the time of your life!) trying to figure out things, while a session or two watching an experienced engineer could cause a Eureka moment.

No question, actually after about 6 years of self taught, I took an entire on line Masters Certificate program in Music Production in Pro Tools at Berklee Collage of Music, which made a world of difference in working knowledge and understanding.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Actually there is no debate here or right or wrong, both approaches are in fact completely and totally viable.

Desiring to learn to record and mix is totally viable. It is like any other craft/art, it is something that requires time and commitment to get proficient at . Like any other such endeavor it is something that can represent a lifetime of learning and improvement.

Deciding not to spend the required time but to focus that time on playing and performing is also a totally viable choice.

They are simply personal choices nothing more.

I don't think there is a debate here. Instead, there is a rational discussion from those who have chosen one way and those who have chosen another. I have enjoyed reading and participating.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Wengr

I think we are very lucky to be doing what we do at the time in history.
For one thing, it is possible to get a good recording of the acoustic guitar at home. It will take some time and money, but it is achievable. Try that with drums or a band.
Also, in the relatively small world of fingerstyle guitar, I find most of the leading players to be very approachable and generous with information. You can reach out to them and they will often share their tracking styles, who mastered a certain track, etc.
I think it's a great time to be doing what we do.

This is one of the things I have really enjoyed about fingerstyle guitar. The artists are approachable. Compare that to a big concert that is so loud it can damage your ears. You may have to watch the concert on monitors, and the performers come and go surrounded by body guards and enclosed in limousines. Quite the contrast.

Tony

[TallDrink]

Originally Posted by Wengr

That is what I want as well. The problem seems to be that x amount of processing power still requires a fan to run cool enough. Depending on what you want to do, it can be done. I am not a mac guy, but I bought an app called Auria that should run on my wife's Ipad. Have not tried it yet, but for recording one or two tracks at a time I don't see why it won't be fine. On the other hand, my daw of choice is Samplitude, and I don't think there is a fanless portable windows device that would be powerful to run it.

I use Auria on my iPad Air, in conjunction with the Alesis iO Dock.






Auria is very powerful, and getting new features added all the time.
It's also supported by some of the best makers of plug-ins, most if not all, is also very popular on Desktop DAW's.

The current version supports up to 48 tracks, and there's a new pro version of Auria that have unlimited tracks, among a wealth of other new features.

It does everything I've ever needed, and a lot I didn't even know I needed..

There is a few drawbacks, mainly the lack of memory and processor power on the iPad, which results in the need to freeze tracks if you're using lots of plug-ins on the individual tracks.
Ten years ago, I remember having to do that on the PC too, but desktops today is much more powerful today, to the point where that's not needed anymore.

The Alesis iO Dock supports two mono inputs or one stereo input at a time, both midi, line-in and Aux. It also supports Phantom Powered mics.

2014 saw a lot of great music apps for the iPad, and apps like Audiobus, which make it possible to route tracks between different apps, and use effects directly from one app into another.

Also, it can fit in a very small case, so it's incredible portable, which have been very useful for me, as my double bass and piano playing friends don't like lugging their instruments around..

All the music on my soundcloud account is made using this setup.