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  #1  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:04 AM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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Default Experience with Emerald X20 Nylon?

Hi CF fans.

I have 4 CF’s from 3 makers and love them all. Wonderful instruments.

I’m considering an Emerald x20 nylon and wonder if any of you have direct experience either playing or listening, and might be willing to comment.

Primarily my planned use is fingerstyle jazz ballads, bossa nova/samba and Jerry Reed type American music, rather than classical guitar per se. I will need to play both acoustically and amplified.

Does it sound like a good nylon string instrument, simply put. Also, how are the mechanics, particularly the tuners on the slot head.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:26 AM
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Mark;

I started my Emerald experience with an X10N, moved to an X20-OSN, moved forward to an X10-OSN and recently to an X7-OSN thin-bodied electric. In my experience, every one of the mentioned guitars would satisfy the play you want.

The X20 build sounds like the best for serving both acoustic and electric needs. It is larger than the others and has very satisfying tonal and projection qualities. It also electrifies very nicely.

As you might guess, I like Alistair's work and have enjoyed the opportunity to try various sizes and features. The X20-OSN is nicely ergonomic and is very comfortable to play. I prefer a slightly smaller build which accounts for my move to the X10-OSN. The X7 electric is sweet, but a bit small for my taste and I'm trying to convince Alistair to produce an X10-OSN thin-bodied, nylon string electric.

I like the look of the slot tuners and they have been right on the money as far as function. I also like the peg tuners and think it comes down to a matter of style. Relative to function, I would also recommend that you consider the Barbera pickup. I have it on the X7 and have found it to be remarkably well balanced and sensitive.

You don't say where you live, but if you come through Las Vegas you are welcome to visit and play the X10 and X7 Emeralds.
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:13 AM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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Thanks for your detailed response Evan, I really appreciate that information from direct experience. It’s exactly what I’m seeking.

For some reason, while I’ve had no problem at all with imagining and producing proper acoustic tonality with steel strings on CF, I have a sound/image of nylon on wood stuck in my mind and ears.

I wonder how the nylon emeralds, though built to the shape of their standard series, are able to convert less string tension to a proper top vibrational energy? I don’t think there’s any bracing under there, correct? Do they change the structural properties of the top weave, or thickness it differently?

Just curiosity speaking. If they sound, feel and play right, that’s that really matters.

Again, my thanks for sharing your extensive experience with these beautiful instruments. Mark.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:51 PM
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Mark;

I have tried nylon strings on steel string CF instruments and so have some of the makers. The result seems to be that good tonal qualities are obtained but that projection is diminished, which is to be expected.

I suspect that all of the current CF nylon string guitars have had adjustments made to the top. What I know is that the Rainsong Parlor and the Emeralds come very close to traditional sounding classical guitars.

That said, I also believe that none of the CF offerings excel a top quality classical nylon string. I play my CF against my brother-in-laws Ramirez and while the CFs do well on the tonal front, they still lack some of the powerful projection found the better wooden classics. The Blackbird nylon string Rider, in my estimation, came the closest to the tone and projection of classical and flamenco guitars (Joe made the Rider in either iteration).

The deficiency is very minor when compared to the hybrid advantages of cut-a-ways, more manageable nut widths, electronics, and comfort.

Also, there are others on this forum who have pursued CF nylons and may be better players than I. Hopefully they'll chime in here at some point.
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:34 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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My take on the nylons...uhhhh... well...uhhh..... "Mark" is a really cool name. Hope this helped.
__________________
YUP....
Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:22 PM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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Thanks to you both! This is very valuable to me.

Kramster, my little sister used to call me Kram! Won’t report here what I used to call her. 😉
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2018, 04:25 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
Thanks to you both! This is very valuable to me.

Kramster, my little sister used to call me Kram! Won’t report here what I used to call her. 😉
Did she walk backwards a lot?? I called my brother Diaper Rash and my sister Skinny Hippopotamus... no middle name for either... and they didn't even have to call me Kram... my Dad did name a colt Kram... as we went through the Alphabet with names as the young Equine came along


So yes I have no X-20 nylon experience except vicariously through Unc Evy.
__________________
YUP....
Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:28 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is online now
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Hi Mark, taste and preferences in guitars are highly individualistic. For example, Evan and I have almost exactly opposite tastes in necks: thin vs thick, flat vs radiused, wider nut width vs narrower nut width. Fortunately, Alistair seems able and willing to build to whatever specifications you provide!

I commissioned the first nylon string guitar that Alistair built, an X-10. It has some unique tonal qualities that I really like, and the playability is almost perfect for me, as Alistair built the guitar to my specifications.

Alistair tells me that his nylon string guitars have come a long way since he built the first one about 10 years ago, and I am eagerly waiting for a new X-10 archtop hybrid nylon string. Maybe some day I will ask Alistair to build a custom X-20 nylon string. I don't know yet.

I agree with all of the advantages of CF nylon strings that Evan pointed out.

Bottom line is that taste and preferences in guitars are highly individualistic, and the only way to know whether or not YOU would like any given guitar is to play it yourself.

Best regards,
Tom
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:45 PM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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Thanks Tom.

Your bottom line advice - have it in hand and decide for yourself -is certainly the truest of all comments.

Emeralds are scarce enough in general, and nylon scarcer still. Rather than drop 3.5 k on a chance, I like to hear some opinions first, especially those that come with rationales. Glad there’s a forum for just that purpose!

Really, I’m leaning toward staying with a wood build if I do get something new. Truth is, my old inexpensive Yamaha cutaway with dual source electronics might be all I really need for the purposes at hand.

Again, I appreciate all comments very much. Mark.
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:28 PM
Barb1 Barb1 is offline
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Hi Mark,
I have not played an X20 Nylon but I do own an X7 Nylon (630mm scale and a 48mm nut) and it is quite amazing. The guitar sounds and plays great and is very comfortable. It has become one of my favorite guitars.
At some point I'd like to purchase an X20 Nylon with the same scale and nut width as my X7.
Barb
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  #11  
Old 02-10-2018, 01:20 PM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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Thanks for the comments Barb.

Couple of questions: are your remarks on acoustic tone only, amplified or both? Also, approximately when was your X7 built?

Regards, Mark.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2018, 04:13 PM
Barb1 Barb1 is offline
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Hi Mark,
I really like the acoustic sound of the X7 Nylon. It doesn't have the sound of my Kenny Hill but I love it as much as I love the wooden guitar because it's sound is different and lovely. I had a bone saddle made for the X7 Nylon which made the trebles sing and took off some of the bass (although there is still strong bass). The X7, when amplified, sounds terrific. I wouldn't hesitate to take it out to a gig.
My X7 landed at my door in August 17.
Barb
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2018, 06:32 PM
CFW CFW is offline
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I’ve been hoping Alistair would post the recordings he did with my guitar before he shipped it. My descriptions can’t do it justice, and I’m not recording anything.

I’m very happy with my x20 nylon. With it being a ‘12fret’ and the bridge moving lower in the bout, the bass response is incredible, perhaps overpowering, but it just takes a lighter touch.

Last edited by CFW; 02-10-2018 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:49 PM
Tom2 Tom2 is offline
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Lots of non-classical nylon experience, no Emerald experience.

The perfect Emerald nylon would have the body length of an x20, lower bout width of an x10, body depth of an x7, and 12 fret bridge placement. This would address the bass heaviness mentioned by CFW, and would match standard classical body dimensions. I also prefer a slightly shorter 640mm scale, which is also the standard short scale length for classical.

For me, the biggest issue with crossovers is the gap between the first string and the edge of the fretboard. The narrower neck often forces designers to either make the strings too close to each other, which causes accidental muting of adjacent strings, or the first string too close to the fretboard edge, which causes accidental slippage of the first string off the fretboard. If you prefer a string spacing of 41mm or 41.5mm (my favorite) at the nut, then the nut width needs to be 48.5mm or 49mm. A 20" fretboard radius, instead of a 16" radius, also improves first string slippage issues.

If you can dream it, Emerald can make it. Right now I'm using wood.
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2018, 08:06 PM
ethanay ethanay is offline
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Tom2, thank you for this post about dimensions and neck width. I suspected a 12 fret X20 would still pose issues and this gives me something concrete to discuss with Emerald as I mull over a CF replacement for my Sitka/Rosewood nylon string.

I agree completely with string spacing especially when considering hammer ons and pull offs, not just on the outside strings but also on the inside strings without bothering the vibrations of the other strings.
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