Best Under Saddle Filler

[Image_Engine]

Hi All and greetz from Oz
I have read a number of great posts here ranging from loose saddles etc but have a specific application and was hoping for some help;

BACKGROUND:
Have a bunch of guitars; I used a seagull s6 slim as my gig guitar, intonation is beautiful, projection etc all great but I really miss the response of the spruce top so I am replacing it with a seagull excursion; really great spruce top. When I got it, the intonation was really bad (Low E @ +10c). Same strings fitted and it sounds so much quieter than the s6 even though I know it will need a bit of time to open up. Closer inspection revealed it had a loose saddle laying over a little, when I lifted it up, I saw it had an sonicore transducer element which looks a bit like braided rope. So it seems obvious with such an interference between the saddle and the actual bridge, might it be good to entomb the piezo so the saddle transmits more directly to the bridge area? I dont use the piezo at all (I hate the quack and use a hclamp and rode mic live) but I want to retain it; the acoustic sound is king though.
Edit:--- My apologies...should have made it clear...I def want to keep the piezo in as an option...Im using an irig stage...which with a bit of time setting up is great...Im wanting to using 12db LP filter @ approx 450hz on the piezo signal and sent it to the mix of the stage input and use it for a solid bottom end..the only thing the stage lacks...a bit like the LEBaggs anthem idea.
End Edit ---

QUESTION:
What material can I use that I can later extract if needed? I have used super glue before to attach piezos to tongue drums etc and its been amazing...but getting the stuff back out seems a problem. Must be very brittle for maximum transients etc. Remember there is a round rope laying in a square rut acting like a little shock absorber snake...Im trying to fill in an around to try and mate the saddle as best as possible to the bridge.

Thanks for any help
Mark

[fazool]

remove the piezo sensor - it pulls out.

Get a new saddle and sand it down less - the extra height is the only filler you need.

Do not "entomb" the piezo in anything

[redir]

Yeah if you never use it just pull that sucker out and have a nice bone saddle fitted in.

[downtime]

I've seen all kinds of material used as shims under saddles that I would NOT recommend: toothpicks, cardboard, paper, gum wrappers etc.

I have successfully used ebony shims glued to the bottom of the saddle and then sanded to the correct height when removing an under saddle pickup or fixing a bad setup.

You can purchase them from Bob Colosi here: http://guitarsaddles.com/SaddleShim.asp

Buy yourself a nice set of bone bridge pins from Bob and add a shim to the order for only a couple bucks, saves a lot of work compared to carving a new saddle from a bone blank.

[Halcyon/Tinker]

If the saddle is rolling over anyway it indicates that it is too thin for the slot and a new one is your best bet.

As others have said, since you don't want to use the piezo, pull it inside and tape it to the sides out of the way and make a proper saddle that fits.

[Image_Engine]

Originally Posted by fazool

remove the piezo sensor - it pulls out.

Get a new saddle and sand it down less - the extra height is the only filler you need.

Thanks for the reply
Sorry, I had to edit...been sick for the last week with flu in bed...not thinking straight...but getting time to type in a forum is a luxury ;-)

The piezo needs to stay. Question is, I know that any piezo creates a buffer; how do I best get the most efficient transmission to the bridge.

Originally Posted by fazool

Do not "entomb" the piezo in anything

Just a question Fazool, have you ever personally AB'd examples of piezo transducers with 'clamped install' versus 'highly transmissive glue'? eg in studio environment? Only because the piezos under strain always sound quacky, even that tongue drum I was talking about. It went from an awful edgy lofi, and then an 'entombed' mount just using super glue (with back mount) and the difference was night and day. Would love to hear your reference point is the main thing. Even check the K&K installs, just the mount makes so much difference. I was inspired by their 'Big Shot' tongue drum example, which encouraged me to commit to permanent install.

Cheers :-)

[Image_Engine]

Apologies for the edit. The cedar needs the definition of the Tusq...havent made up my mind about bone on spruce yet.

[Image_Engine]

Yes, new sadlle anyway but sorry I didnt make the optional use of the piezo clear. It needs to stay. The goal is more surface area of the piezo is connected to the bridge and consequently the saddle; how is that best achieved with serviceability in mind?

[pops]

I just removed a similar transducer from a guitar that was glued in. What a mess. As has been discussed get a new saddle and put a bridge plate transducer in instead, like a K&K. You will be happier with both the acoustic sound and amplified sound.

[Image_Engine]

Thanks Pops...you mean like a 3 head eg Pure etc...actually thats a great idea! I get the full tonal picture and the bottom is still great on those. I have one on a classical and its surprisingly good.
You got the GOLD!

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Image_Engine

...The piezo needs to stay.
...

Why ?

Originally Posted by Image_Engine

...Just a question Fazool, have you ever personally AB'd examples of piezo transducers with 'clamped install' versus 'highly transmissive glue'? ..

Yes, arguably more than anyone.

[Image_Engine]

Needs to stay because I want to use it as the low end feed ie sub 350hz and the response curve, sustain etc is far better than micing. As mentioned, the idea is a xover where the piezo provides the low end and irig stage mic is providing the instrument space etc. Its always been my fav way to record bass...DI for frequencies below 120hz via butterworth 2nd or 3rd mag and the inverse (hp) from the amp (usually r88)...
I think Pops is the solver...use a bridge plate...K&K make some great ones...and refit new saddle...tone solved, bottom end solved...I dont need the piezo for tone...just body res.
Cheers

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Image_Engine

...I dont need the piezo for tone...just body res....

Wrong tool for the job.

The UST piezo sensor is stressed from compression. A body sensor uses a compressive mass to form an accelerometer.

So you will get better results removing the UST, making intimate saddle-to-bridge contact and using a SBT for body resonance (and EQ-ing it to lows).

[fazool]

Originally Posted by pops

I just removed a similar transducer from a guitar that was glued in. What a mess. ....

In addition, encasing it in glue reduces the effect of its function.

[Image_Engine]

Thanks. Yeah thats the outcome anyway. Its solved...and many thanks to everyones input. In fact I think Im thinking of just using a single hotspot over near the E/A/D saddle/bridge pins (leaving the body res out of it a bit and getting the heart of the bass strings) as a natural bandpass. Things get a lot clearer as you mull them over "He who seeks to take a city, seeks the counsel of many"

In regards to the glue...Im not talking about an absorbent buffer ie polymer or acetates...I was thinking acrylate/carbonate filler which is very stiff...you dont think that a full connection to the bridge/body would have sounded better than just compression along 2 edges? Sure, cleaner sharper attack etc but no body damping/phase relationships etc...just wondering your basis of understanding...acrylates are a pretty tight molecular space to transmit vibration.
Cheers :-)