Groove tube 57 large diaphram for classical guitar

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

I just got 2 AT2035 and placing them on the mic bar like 8" apart sounds too boxy (wish I can post a photo). I hope it is s set up issue and not malfunction as I got them used ��

The other stupid question I have - the word Audio Technica is facing me. Is that the right orientation? Or should flip them 180 degrees?

Any placement tips and ideas are welcome.

Thx

Yes logo facing you and or guitar

So you have them 8" apart but how far from guitar sound board ? also try to have the guitar sound hole spaced evenly in between the two mics, not have the sound hole directly in front of either mic.

So "Boxy" ?. Couple thoughts, first boxy is subjective term so hard to know exactly what you are hearing --- BUT in general
LDC's are more sensitive and pick more off axis than SDC's so for example often any "boxy" sound is more an issue of room reflections issues in an untreated room (especially the further away from the guitar sound board you have them ..

Also note that in general LDC's are going to have a bit more overall space/presence in the sound, which can sometimes be perceived as boxy if you not used to hearing it


And consider you may want to (if not already set up a free SoundCloud account. and set up a free photo web hosting account like for instance Imgur for posting photos here on AGF

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Copy the url of the image, use the little "Insert Image" icon above the reply text box, paste in your URL, and click "OK".

Thank you. That is what I though I did.
Anyways here is the setup as you see. Another thing I noticed LDC are much lower volume wise, so you need to raise the gain a bit more to get the same output. Is this the case for LDCs?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thank you. That is what I though I did.
Anyways here is the setup as you see. Another thing I noticed LDC are much lower volume wise, so you need to raise the gain a bit more to get the same output. Is this the case for LDCs?

Photo showing

so to clarify are the SDC 8" apart and the LDC are more - how much in inches "


I would suggest to start with the SDC's not mounted yet just play with LDC and get used to them before adding the SDC

Volume difference yes different mics often require different gain settings to reach the same level but that is more specific to the individual mic components than being just a n LDC vs. SDC thing.

Also not that in the set up shown in photo depending on wide the LDC are space (and if the sound hole of the guitar is in the center of the SDC's , the LDC's could simply getting further away from the concentrated volume at the sound hole

Also what are the dimension's of your room ?
It appears you are near the window and wall facing corner
I would try moving you and mics out and away from the corner and wall .
Try more to the center of the room on the short wall and about 1/3 of length of the long dimension on long wall away from short wall

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Photo showing

so to clarify are the SDC 8" apart and the LDC are more - how much in inches "


I would suggest to start with the SDC's not mounted yet just play with LDC and get used to them before adding the SDC

Volume difference yes different mics often require different gain settings to reach the same level but that is more specific to the individual mic components than being just a n LDC vs. SDC thing.

Also not that in the set up shown in photo depending on wide the LDC are space (and if the sound hole of the guitar is in the center of the SDC's , the LDC's could simply getting further away from the concentrated volume at the sound hole

Also what are the dimension's of your room ?
It appears you are near the window and wall facing corner
I would try moving you and mics out and away from the corner and wall .
Try more to the center of the room on the short wall and about 1/3 of length of the long dimension on long wall away from short wall

SDCs are like 8" apart. LDCs are like 19-20" apart. All mics are like 50-60cm from the guitar sound board.

The room is 17x12' ( thankfully not a square), in the center is my queen size bed 😀
I can try playing on the bed facing the short wall with the window.

Thanks for the info did not know that LDCs pick more off acid that SDCs.

But what I am starting to realize is it is very difficult to mount 2 SDCs and 2 LDCs on the same mic bar and get decent sound from all 4 mics, agree?

I might have to get another mic bar either with a dedicated stand or add to the same stand (preferable if on the same stand of course as it saves space)
Thx a lot

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

SDCs are like 8" apart. LDCs are like 19-20" apart. All mics are like 50-60cm from the guitar sound board.

The room is 17x12' ( thankfully not a square), in the center is my queen size bed 😀
I can try playing on the bed facing the short wall with the window.

Thanks for the info did not know that LDCs pick more off acid that SDCs.

But what I am starting to realize is it is very difficult to mount 2 SDCs and 2 LDCs on the same mic bar and get decent sound from all 4 mics, agree?

I might have to get another mic bar either with a dedicated stand or add to the same stand (preferable if on the same stand of course as it saves space)
Thx a lot

Ah OK so a true bedroom studio. I have the same issue and yes at times my recordings can sound boxy because of room issues especially when I am too far from the mics

Here even though they are ribbons (figure of 8) and I do have some treatment behind them on the wall 6-7 ft away, to my ear the guitar is still just a tad bit boxy sounding
so I am going to start putting a couple free standing gobo panels behind the mic's



You may want to try the LDC's closer like half that distance like 8-10 inches

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

SDCs are like 8" apart. LDCs are like 19-20" apart. All mics are like 50-60cm from the guitar sound board.

The room is 17x12' ( thankfully not a square), in the center is my queen size bed ��
I can try playing on the bed facing the short wall with the window.

Thanks for the info did not know that LDCs pick more off acid that SDCs.

But what I am starting to realize is it is very difficult to mount 2 SDCs and 2 LDCs on the same mic bar and get decent sound from all 4 mics, agree?

I might have to get another mic bar either with a dedicated stand or add to the same stand (preferable if on the same stand of course as it saves space)
Thx a lot

In the configuration you show if you are attempting to use all 4 mics you're almost assuridly going to run into severe phase cancellation problems. That ain't pretty.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

thanks i tried to space them and have them like 10" apart (instead of the SDC at the edges of the bar) and they sound better. Still my ear is not used to them yet They sound a bit boxy compared to the SDC.

But i guess my plan to have all 4 mics on a single 10.5" bar (like SDC at the edges and LDCs like 8" apart) is NOT gonna fly. Options:
A. Get another mic bar with a separate stand OR
B. Get a splitter or another small bar (as a splitter) to have one bar for the SDCs and another for the LDCs like b2b. Space is limited in my bedroom, so trying to avoid option A.

In general, I like a single LDC on guitar...but if I'm using 2, I typically go for both 10-12" off the guitar. One pointing at the neck/body joint & the other pointing just behind the bridge.

Also...there is a more than likely chance you will need to scoop some low mids out of the recording. Those can make it sound woolly. Boxy is probably closer to 700-800Hz (if we're using the same meaning for "boxy", which we may not be). Speaking very generally.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thank you. That is what I though I did.
Anyways here is the setup as you see. Another thing I noticed LDC are much lower volume wise, so you need to raise the gain a bit more to get the same output. Is this the case for LDCs?

That's a whole lot of mics for a guitar...just sayin'

1, maybe 2, is all you should need. If you want a mix of LDC/SDC, you could do 1 of each...that's pretty common.

Keep in mind the 3 to 1 rule (well, more of a guide really) for multiple mics on a single source. The distance between the mics should be 3 times the distance between the mic & the source. Again, this is really a guide...there are reasons to ignore this, but start here until you know why you want to ignore this.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

In the configuration you show if you are attempting to use all 4 mics you're almost assuridly going to run into severe phase cancellation problems. That ain't pretty.

To be clear I am not using all 4 mics. Like I said earlier 2 will be used for rythym and 2 for solos. Micing a guitar with 4 mics in a room is crazy ..I know at least this much.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

That's a whole lot of mics for a guitar...just sayin'

1, maybe 2, is all you should need. If you want a mix of LDC/SDC, you could do 1 of each...that's pretty common.

Keep in mind the 3 to 1 rule (well, more of a guide really) for multiple mics on a single source. The distance between the mics should be 3 times the distance between the mic & the source. Again, this is really a guide...there are reasons to ignore this, but start here until you know why you want to ignore this.

To be clear I am not using all 4 mics. Like I said earlier 2 will be used for rythym and 2 for solos. Micing a guitar with 4 mics in a room is crazy ..I know at least this much.

Having said that I tried 2 SDC as a stereo pair and one LDC near the bridge and the sound was nice, it had a broader spectrum than that just picked up by the SDC.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

In general, I like a single LDC on guitar...but if I'm using 2, I typically go for both 10-12" off the guitar. One pointing at the neck/body joint & the other pointing just behind the bridge.

Also...there is a more than likely chance you will need to scoop some low mids out of the recording. Those can make it sound woolly. Boxy is probably closer to 700-800Hz (if we're using the same meaning for "boxy", which we may not be). Speaking very generally.

Thanks Steve, I tried close but 10-12" is very boxy and in your face sound to my ears. Minimum I read online for a spaced pair is 50cm- more if the room allows.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Ah OK so a true bedroom studio. I have the same issue and yes at times my recordings can sound boxy because of room issues especially when I am too far from the mics

Here even though they are ribbons (figure of 8) and I do have some treatment behind them on the wall 6-7 ft away, to my ear the guitar is still just a tad bit boxy sounding
so I am going to start putting a couple free standing gobo panels behind the mic's



You may want to try the LDC's closer like half that distance like 8-10 inches

Thanks for your feedback, nice playing and very nice voice too 👍. I can see you are placing both ribbons close to the 12th fret? Is that correct? It sounds nice to me maybe a hair boxy, did you try placing the ribbons further away from the guitar? In classical you get a less boxy tone by playing closer to the bridge. So maybe if you move your pick a bit away from the sound hole it would help?

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thanks Steve, I tried close but 10-12" is very boxy and in your face sound to my ears. Minimum I read online for a spaced pair is 50cm- more if the room allows.

Again, they are no rules. 50cm (about 20”) is pretty far back. I suspect the boxiness is not so much how close, but where the mics are pointing.

I typically record acoustics from 10-12” and get great results. But it takes a minute to find the right spot for the mic(s).

Try setting up, putting on some headphones & listening as you move the guitar around in front of the mics. Maybe even listen to 1 mic at a time. Try to find the spots that sound balanced & natural & make a note of where those are.

Again, stay tuned. There’s going to be a great article that goes into acoustic guitar recording hitting very soon.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thanks for your feedback, nice playing and very nice voice too ��. I can see you are placing both ribbons close to the 12th fret? Is that correct? It sounds nice to me maybe a hair boxy, did you try placing the ribbons further away from the guitar? In classical you get a less boxy tone by playing closer to the bridge. So maybe if you move your pick a bit away from the sound hole it would help?

Thanks ,

If I remember correctly the appearance is skewed by camera angle (which is off to right ) the ribbons are long ribbons (the black area) and are actually positioned more from the sound hole back towards the bridge (More like it appears in the start of the zoom out) The notion of playing with pic more towards the bridge is a good notion I will play around with with that.

I have not tried with ribbons further away because these ribbons are said to be better when close mic-ed. So I may try both further and closer with less gain

That said : I was also I was experimenting with the up and down horizontal placement (which bing closer to the sound hole could possibly be contributing to boxy) Up and down in an effort to not get the side movement issue when using them in the traditional left and right space pair placement.
But I also have no doubt my room is contributory also.

In this one same guitar but I am using just the flesh of my thumb for strumming. I have the ribbons higher and more in line with neck-body joint, same with single LDC for the riff parts

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by KevWind

If I remember correctly the appearance is skewed by camera angle (which is off to right ) the ribbons are long ribbons (the black area) and are actually positioned more from the sound hole back towards the bridge (More like it appears in the start of the zoom out) The notion of playing with pic more towards the bridge is a good notion I will play around with with that.

I have not tried with ribbons further away because these ribbons are said to be better when close mic-ed. So I may try both further and closer with less gain

That said : I was also I was experimenting with the up and down horizontal placement (which bing closer to the sound hole could possibly be contributing to boxy) Up and down in an effort to not get the side movement issue when using them in the traditional left and right space pair placement.
But I also have no doubt my room is contributory also

I see maybe my eyes were tricked by the angle. It seems mic placement is like 70% of the recording game 😀
I have honestly had not any success in getting a good tone closer than 50 cm from the sound board. I hear what people are saying but note that steel strings are different than classical/flamenco guitar. It is a totally different instrument (in spite of both being called guitars lol).

Up and downs affects the tone buy in a different way.