Moving to a more plant-based diet

[Chicago Sandy]

The reason certain African and indigenous S. American peoples thrive on vegan, grain-and-legume-dominant diets is probably genetic (and I wouldn’t be surprised if their starch intake came from uncultivated sources that they simply gather). Same thing, I suspect, for the “French paradox” of staying cardiovascularly fit and lean despite drinking a half-bottle of wine and eating half a baguette or more, plus a full complement of animal fats and proteins, a day. Humankind has not been agrarian long enough for our genes to evolve sufficiently for our bodies to process cultivated grains in an optimally healthy manner. To the extent that we are naturally omnivorous rather than strictly carnivorous, it’s because our earliest ancestors supplemented the meat and fish in their diets with leaves, roots, berries, seeds and the occasional fallen fruits (the latter to ensure a source of calories to turn into body fat for survival in case--often frequent--of famine). Thanks to predators, childbirth complications and infections, ancient humans didn’t live long enough to develop diseases of overconsumption such as Type 2 diabetes or on the opposite end of the continuum, gout or atherosclerosis.

[seannx]

Originally Posted by Psalad

Wine is a major part of that diet. Well for me anyway.

The less grains I eat the better I feel and the more I stay close to my target weight. The trick for me is to stay closer to ketosis, so my body is getting the carbs I need but not too much that my body stores the balance as fat. When my carbs are in balance all appears to be well. YMMV but that works for me.

I'm mostly vegetarian with fish a few times a week and get a fair amount of exercise.

I would characterize my diet as pseudo paleo vegetarian pescatarian mediterranean.

That's been my experience too. No wine for me, but fish and turkey are at the top of my food chain.

[Chicago Sandy]

Originally Posted by amyFB

So, the animal reference in my original post had to do with the ability of the animal to consume a whole grain without it needing to be refined in order to do so. As such, all the nutrition of the grain stays with and is absorbed by the animal, and thus reaches the human who eats the meat of the animal that ate the grain. (so my theory goes)

So too with hormones, antibiotics and certain grains (especially corn) consumed by the animals we eat today--which is why I seek out meat, dairy and eggs from naturally raised and pastured animals whenever I can. Or at the very least, animals not fed hormones, antibiotics, animal byproducts or GMO corn.

As to buckwheat groats, wild rice and quinoa, they’re all seeds of wild grasses with more integrated fiber than other whole grains such as wheat, rice, corn, millet, rye, oats, spelt or barley. And quinoa is one of the only plant-based foods that contains complete protein (i.e., one that is utilized as such without having to be combined with a complementary incomplete protein from dairy, legumes or another grain). I do allow myself a little quinoa or sweet potato every now and then--but if oftener than once a week or even less, I usually gain weight.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

The reason certain African and indigenous S. American peoples thrive on vegan, grain-and-legume-dominant diets is probably genetic (and I wouldn’t be surprised if their starch intake came from uncultivated sources that they simply gather). Same thing, I suspect, for the “French paradox” of staying cardiovascularly fit and lean despite drinking a half-bottle of wine and eating half a baguette or more, plus a full complement of animal fats and proteins, a day. Humankind has not been agrarian long enough for our genes to evolve sufficiently for our bodies to process cultivated grains in an optimally healthy manner. To the extent that we are naturally omnivorous rather than strictly carnivorous, it’s because our earliest ancestors supplemented the meat and fish in their diets with leaves, roots, berries, seeds and the occasional fallen fruits (the latter to ensure a source of calories to turn into body fat for survival in case--often frequent--of famine). Thanks to predators, childbirth complications and infections, ancient humans didn’t live long enough to develop diseases of overconsumption such as Type 2 diabetes or on the opposite end of the continuum, gout or atherosclerosis,

Thanks Sandy. Do you have any evidence of the claim that our bodies aren't evolved enough to process grains? It sounds intuitive but I have never found any science that suggests or confirms this.

Regarding paleo diets, what most people who look at this understand is that they were wildly variable. I think I mentioned in my first post about this. In northern climes where vegetation was scarce, a larger portion of the diet was probably fish and game. Lean game, not fattened, drugged up livestock. But in many cases, humans and pre-humans existed on plants, nuts and berries and occasionally supplemented this with game (hard to catch) and eggs as they could. Meat increased in the diet as hunting and tools became more sophisticated, or so the current thinking goes. Anyway, the idea that a paleolithic diet is focused primarily on meat or that it was one kind of diet seems at least in question.

Another assumption is that a "paleo" diet was healthy, but as you mention we think folks didn't live long enough for it to matter. Worth a read:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...l-vegetarians/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...er-really-eat/

And it's not clear at all that this diet would engender the kind of results many are looking for.

As you mention, diet is part of an overall cultural profile, which may or may not include large amounts of daily exercise. This certainly has great effect on our overall health.

What is clear is that eating whole foods and lean meats or fish in moderation has been proven to result in better health and longevity across multiple studies.

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Hi, Dirk,

Great update. I'm also progressing, now down to 222 from my original 256 (aiming for about 170-175). Got a good report from the doctor today on my annual physical results. Just need to get my HDL up, but he says I'm on the right track by losing the weight and getting more exercise in. I have a lot more energy, and feel more mentally acute as well. And to think I'm only a little over 40% or so to my goal--I should be feeling REALLY great by then!

Down to 210 now and still dropping

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Down to 210 now and still dropping

Really impressive! You are doing fantastic. I'm at 200 now, it's slowed down a lot for me which is probably not a bad thing. I was losing weight faster than I expected. 5 more lbs to go.

How are you feeling? I assume very well.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by 220volt

Human body evolved to metabolize all kinds of food. Whatever it takes to survive. Your body will metabolize pretty much anything, and I've noticed that no matter what I eat as long as eat in moderation and small portions I feel great. Giving your body just enough to get it going until the next meal and so on.
Every diet, fad, counting calories, strict regime etc.. just adds additional stress, yes you might lose weight, but develop stress related problems. So I don't fret about it as long as I eat in moderation. Your body can deal with small amounts of anything, be that processed or not, as long as you don't overload it. I honestly feel best after a nice steak. But no starches or alcohol with it. Just plain steak. It's like someone injected me with life.

My grandfather always said: eat whatever your heart desires, but leave the plate before you get full.

I think this is very true. The sheer quantity of food seems to represent one of the most significant dangers. I think the urge to eat in abundance has many of us searching to find the ideal food that can be eaten in almost unlimited quantities without negative consequences. A step I've taken in this direction is to eat off smaller side plates instead of big dinner plates.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

If everyone lived a healthier lifestyle, most people would live a lot longer.

... to say nothing of reduced costs in healthcare that would be enjoyed by all of us.

[fazool]

I'm using Lent as a good chance to test drive a lifestyle change.

I've given up red meat and pork. Basically I gave up mammals as food. I still eat fish & fowl. We eat a lot of chicken anyway, but it is surprising just how pervasive beef is as a food staple. I mean, it is the main food ingredient of the vast majority of entrees at virtually every restaurant. It's like beef-beef-beef-beef-pork-more beef....

So far it's had negligible changes in my life so I think it's sustainable.

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Really impressive! You are doing fantastic. I'm at 200 now, it's slowed down a lot for me which is probably not a bad thing. I was losing weight faster than I expected. 5 more lbs to go.

How are you feeling? I assume very well.

Thanks! You too--you are over 70% to your goal (I'm about 57% there). Yes, feeling great. Even when I got sick a couple weeks ago, I still felt like I had three times the energy that I did in the past when ill.

Going out today to buy yet another new pair of pants

Originally Posted by fazool

I'm using Lent as a good chance to test drive a lifestyle change.

I've given up red meat and pork. Basically I gave up mammals as food. I still eat fish & fowl. We eat a lot of chicken anyway, but it is surprising just how pervasive beef is as a food staple. I mean, it is the main food ingredient of the vast majority of entrees at virtually every restaurant. It's like beef-beef-beef-beef-pork-more beef....

So far it's had negligible changes in my life so I think it's sustainable.

I agree. I'm not avoiding red meat and pork altogether (e.g. I'll eat it if it's what's served to me at someone's house), but it is never my first choice when I get to decide. And for meat in general, I'm careful to be sure it's in only one meal a day at the most (and then in small quantities).

[seannx]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Down to 210 now and still dropping

That's so rewarding! Nothing like watching those pounds go away, feeling your body again without a big belly of fat, being able to bend over much easier, and enjoying the diet.

A big milestone for me was playing Frisbee one day with my sons, and feeling lighter and more in touch with my body. A weight had literally been lifted away, and moving was much easier.

My doctor said that every pound lost, had the effect of taking 5 pounds of stress off your joints. Not sure what that calculation is based on, but getting rid of that extra mass sure makes a big difference.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Thanks! You too--you are over 70% to your goal (I'm about 57% there). Yes, feeling great. Even when I got sick a couple weeks ago, I still felt like I had three times the energy that I did in the past when ill.

Going out today to buy yet another new pair of pants

Ah yes, the "downside". I have to go ge t a leather awl this weekend for my favorite belt.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by fazool

I'm using Lent as a good chance to test drive a lifestyle change.

I've given up red meat and pork. Basically I gave up mammals as food. I still eat fish & fowl. We eat a lot of chicken anyway, but it is surprising just how pervasive beef is as a food staple. I mean, it is the main food ingredient of the vast majority of entrees at virtually every restaurant. It's like beef-beef-beef-beef-pork-more beef....

So far it's had negligible changes in my life so I think it's sustainable.

It's been surprisingly easy for me to drop beef, chicken and fowl as well. I thought it was going to be really hard but with all the recipes available in the net and on apps like Forks Over Knives it's been easy.

Originally Posted by seannx

That's so rewarding! Nothing like watching those pounds go away, feeling your body again without a big belly of fat, being able to bend over much easier, and enjoying the diet.

A big milestone for me was playing Frisbee one day with my sons, and feeling lighter and more in touch with my body. A weight had literally been lifted away, and moving was much easier.

My doctor said that every pound lost, had the effect of taking 5 pounds of stress off your joints. Not sure what that calculation is based on, but getting rid of that extra mass sure makes a big difference.

Yes, and it's like going back in time for me. As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I had never been overweight in my life except for the last 5 years (in fact, I was underweight in high school at 6'0" 155 lbs.). That fact has helped me get "angry" enough at myself to keep on keeping on.

I also mentioned earlier about sleeping habits. I have continued to get to bed earlier (and at a consistent time), which has also helped with my energy, both physically and mentally.

As to joints, before I started losing the weight, I was starting to experience some issues with knee and foot pain which have since vanished.