Jazz players here! Help me please!

[NewGuitarist]

Greetings!

So I want to play jazz. I've always listened to Joe Pass, and he got me hooked on this whole genre many many years back.

So confused and have no idea where to start!
I heard it's no easy stuff, especially if I told you that I don't really know much more than open chords and basic rhythm (in other words, mind you, I can accompany myself when I sing my favorite songs just fine, and my capo has always been a very dear friend of mine, so to speak )

Jazz players here, I need your help please! What do I need to learn first, then what's next..etc. Any advice is much much appreciated

Also, my classical guitar is my only guitar to play and learn on. Can I use it for jazz?
No way I can afford an archtop or some electric guitar any time soon!
Now if I could play jazz on my classical, would I sound as good on an archtop later? Just to make sure practicing jazz on my classical now would actually pay off when starting to use an electric later, you know

Thanks alot

Regards

[Doug Young]

You can play any kind of music you want on any guitar you want. If you play on a classical, it won't sound like an archtop, but that's ok, right?

There are tons of books, dvds, etc, on playing jazz guitar. There's a lot of stuff online, too. If you don't mind paying a bit, check out Martin Taylor's artistworks program. Or there are people here on AGF who do lessons and have You Tube tutorials on jazz. Look for mr. beaumont, for example. Since you like Joe Pass, there are a lot of Joe Pass books with note-for-note transcriptions, and he also has lesson type books. Those are *very* advanced, but there's no harm in trying to learn to play them, knowing it may take a while before you understand what and why Joe's doing what he's doing. For a gentler introduction, maybe start with something by Fred Sokolow?: http://www.sokolowmusic.com/instructional/jazz

Search for "jazz guitar lessons"on You Tube or Amazon.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You can play any kind of music you want on any guitar you want. If you play on a classical, it won't sound like an archtop, but that's ok, right?

There are tons of books, dvds, etc, on playing jazz guitar. There's a lot of stuff online, too. If you don't mind paying a bit, check out Martin Taylor's artistworks program. Or there are people here on AGF who do lessons and have You Tube tutorials on jazz. Look for mr. beaumont, for example. Since you like Joe Pass, there are a lot of Joe Pass books with note-for-note transcriptions, and he also has lesson type books. Those are *very* advanced, but there's no harm in trying to learn to play them, knowing it may take a while before you understand what and why Joe's doing what he's doing. For a gentler introduction, maybe start with something by Fred Sokolow?: http://www.sokolowmusic.com/instructional/jazz

Search for "jazz guitar lessons"on You Tube or Amazon.

+1^

accepting the theory learning part will help. that's hard stuff until it clicks, then it is very cool.

good luck!

[tdq]

Jazz is very broad genre! I like to dabble in jazz, although I'm by no means a "jazz" guitarist. I'm not sure what level you are at, but my first foray into jazz came from two places - Mickey Bakers Jazz book I. I only managed the first few pages but learning the basic jazz chords can get you pretty far. maj7, maj6, 13th, m7b5, dim7 etc can get you pretty far. The second was the Getz/Gilberto album my parents had. Learning Girl from Ipanema got me on my way. And by the way, they guitar on this album is a nylon string.

[JonPR]

Rock is kindergarten. Jazz is going to college.
But if you play blues, you have a hint of the right kind of attitude (groove, swing, shuffle, improvise...)

IOW, don't think of "jazz" as a kind of music - it's an attitude, a way of doing music (any music, but usually popular music of some kind).
You learn the song, but then you don't "try to get it right" each time you play it - you try to do it your way, to see where you can take it.

Traditionally, "jazz" musicians jazzed up pop songs of the 1920s-40s. Many today jazz up modern pop/rock songs (to show it can be done).

Get that attitude, and you're half-way there. The rest is shedding a ton of old songs (melodies as well as chords), and getting to thoroughly know your instrument. Takes years.. Or longer sometimes...

[EoE]

understand first what jazz is ... at first it was the blending of blues and classical ...so study blues... now it is a blending of all idioms and folk music's. you need to learn to read and theory. the jazz guitar forum is a great place .http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/ .Chick Corea is doing a series I can not express how great this is. it is to good to pass up.http://chickcoreamusicworkshops.com/...dbf273337a59f3

[NewGuitarist]

Wow, thank you so much folks! lots of stuff to keep in mind.

Two things not totally clear yet!

First, it's obvious I can use any guitar to play jazz (or any kind of music for that matter), and I know that playing jazz on a classical guitar won't sound like an archtop! BUT what I was trying to say really but wasn't probably clear enough.. since I'd need to get to know my instrument very well if I wanted to get serious about learning jazz, as Jon said above, I just wouldn't wanna work hard on my technique chops using my classical now only to throw all that (or alot of it) away later in case the technique doesn't transfer well to an archtop. Hence I asked if practicing on a classical can be of any use..

my second question, does a jazz player need to know well his blues in order to play good jazz?

Thanks for the help again

[mr. beaumont]

Jazz is the blues' precocious little brother. Almost all the best stuff has ties to the blues, even if it's not right there on the surface screaming at you.

If you wanna start out on jazz, my advice is chords, chords, chords. Learn em all over...start with root position maj7, m7, 7, and half diminished...then go on to inversions and adding color tones, tensions extensions. Learn an arpeggio for every chord you learn.

Practice chords by learning songs. People get hung up on theory...but jazz is just music. Music is songs.

Train your ear. Learn the melody to tunes by ear whenever you can. Later, once you got some tunes under your belt, try the chords by ear. A good ear is everything. It needen't be good starting out, just train it.

Listen to jazz constantly. It has to become the music that plays in your head.

[stanron]

Check out Charlie Byrd. He played jazz on a nylon strung guitar.

[Archtop Guy]

Originally Posted by NewGuitarist

Wow, thank you so much folks! lots of stuff to keep in mind.

Two things not totally clear yet!

First, it's obvious I can use any guitar to play jazz (or any kind of music for that matter), and I know that playing jazz on a classical guitar won't sound like an archtop! BUT what I was trying to say really but wasn't probably clear enough.. since I'd need to get to know my instrument very well if I wanted to get serious about learning jazz, as Jon said above, I just wouldn't wanna work hard on my technique chops using my classical now only to throw all that (or alot of it) away later in case the technique doesn't transfer well to an archtop. Hence I asked if practicing on a classical can be of any use..

my second question, does a jazz player need to know well his blues in order to play good jazz?

Thanks for the help again

Simple answer #1 : Everything you do with your classical guitar / technique will transfer fine to an archtop later on. Don't worry.

At some point you might want to practice with a plectrum, as many, but not all, jazz guitarists are proficient with it. Joe Pass played all fingerstyle late in life, but Jim Hall never gave up on the pick.

Not so simple answer #2 : Learning the traditional blues licks that your friends (and SRV) played will not help you with jazz. However, you will not be able to avoid learning the concepts of blues when you study jazz. Many jazz tunes use blues changes and blues notes in the melody. Many jazz tunes use highly modified blues like changes. Although jazz shares much history with the blues, the jazz-blues vocabulary from the 1920's onward is it's own language.

Learn jazz and don't worry about the blues. It will come.

[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Listen to jazz constantly. It has to become the music that plays in your head.

This is what I have heard again and again. It really helps to read music. I cannot and it has held back my jazz development for years. I took jazz lessons for a couple years and he got me sorted out, but as soon as I stopped going to class, I stopped practicing reading music. And lost the skill, now its just not any fun to do.

I am encouraged by good players here who say that not reading is not the end of the road.

But living and breathing jazz music is pretty basic.

I have found that a looper helps incredibly. I do a jazz chord progression on the looper with a drum track and then I have to find the melodies and notes that go with those chords. So I learn these progression specific scales that I can then play with using other keys. A looper is a great way to learn jazz, along with a good source of chord changes.

[mr. beaumont]

Reading's a great skill. There's really no "tabs" for jazz, as so much of it is not guitar based. There have of course been a few jazz greats who couldn't read music, but they are exceptions--once in a generation type exceptions.

Reading and writing allows you to communicate with other non guitar instruments. Not being able to read pretty much means you need to always lead, or have a PHENOMENAL ear to follow.

Simce most are not blessed with a phenomenal ear or are ready to lead a jazz group right out of the gate, reading is a really important skill.

[PaulHintz]

It may be worth saying that there has been great jazz played on every kind of guitar imaginable. A few noteworthy players on nylon-string guitar (in addition to the already mentioned Charlie Byrd... his Live at the Village Vanguard trio recording is really wonderful):
Joe Pass, the CD Songs for Ellen is all on nylon string guitar
Lennie Breau, some of his recordings and YouTube videos
Diego Figueiredo, check him out on YouTube
Ken Hatfield
Earl Klugh especially his two solo CDs
Earl Klugh again
and, did I mention Earl Klugh?
Now the OP has a classical guitar background and chops and will probably find things to critique in terms of the tone or technique of some of the above...all the more reason to add to the list of classically trained, nylon-string-playing, jazz guitarists!

[EoE]

it does not matter what guitar you use at clinics you mostly see Ibanez and squires solid bodies and these kids shred. I use solid bodies ......more jazz players use solid bodies than arch tops anyway. you can learn and yes play jazz with nylon strings....http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608...d=1.9&rs=0&p=0

[NewGuitarist]

Thanks alot for the great help everyone. Really appreciate it.

Gotta say, I own a classical guitar and i play my own thing on it, that's it!! no classical training here or anything..
I'll go and check the nylon string jazz players mentioned above for sure.

Not sure if I need to ask this, but since mr. beaumont recommended I practice chords by learning songs, does it matter much if i picked, to start with, say Jobim's "Wave" or "All The Things You Are" or "Minor Swing"? Jazz is a very broad genre as y'all know..

Now reading music.. that's one thing i didn't wanna hear someone talk about