Left hand stretch

[SteveBurt]

Hello,
I've been playing guitar for 18 months. Getting on OK (better now I've upgraded my old classical guitar to a steel stringed acoustic with a narrower neck).
But I'm having some big problems with some stuff I'm learning at the moment which requires 1st finger on 3rd string 1st fret, and 4th finger on 6th string 4th fret. My hands are normal sized, and I have no problems stretching the fingers apart when my hand is flat (I can play a 10th on the piano, so hand size is not the issue).
As soon as my hand curves over the fretboard, my 4th finger curls inwards under the other three. I can't get it into position even if I put it there with my other hand. This is sometimes an issue when I want to do stuff with the 4th finger - it easily gets trapped under the third finger if I'm not careful.
Tilting the guitar neck upward into the classical position (so it sets on my left knee and the head is up near my face) helps because it lets me flatten the wrist out a bit. But I still can't really make that 1st to 4th stretch,
So my question is, are there any exercises which could help me get my 4th finger to behave better? Everyone else in the class can make the stretch, but I'm not even close. Does anyone else have this problem? is there something odd about my hands?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by SteveBurt

…So my question is, are there any exercises which could help me get my 4th finger to behave better? Everyone else in the class can make the stretch, but I'm not even close. Does anyone else have this problem? is there something odd about my hands?

Hi Steve…

As a guitar teacher, I have to constantly remind students that stretching is a relax-move not a strength or flexibility maneuver. If your action is low (so pressing frets easily produces clean notes), it makes stretches easier as well.

And all you have to do is get from the leading edge or the lower note to the back of the target fret. You don't have to land in the middle of a fret to produce notes.

Elevating the neck is recommended (you already disovered that) and that can be accomplished by wearing a strap or using a lift device (like a NeckUP or ErgoPlay) and if you are playing acoustic, then you don't have to drop the guitar body down the well between your legs in classical fashion.

Since I don't have you sitting across from me it's hard to diagnose.

I'm sure you will get lots of advice here.

[rick-slo]

Would have to see you try it to give a better answer. If you can do a 10th on the piano your stretch is good. It is likely left hand position issues.

Try placing the pinky first on the fret and then reaching back for the other fingers.

P.S. You are in a class. Demonstrate the problem to the class teacher for some help.

[stanron]

I assume, as you've been playing for 18 months, that you have come across barre chords. I find the shape you describe easier to play if I finger the first fret with the edge of my first finger in the position I would use for a barre chord, rather than use the tip.

An alternative fingering to

4 X X 1 X X

would be

4 X 6 X X X

much less of a stretch.

[SteveBurt]

Thanks for the suggestions.
Can't use alternate fingerings as I also need to fret the A string at the 2nd fret (although not at the same time as the G at the 1st fret) - the tune is 'In the mood'. The first two bars of that you basically hold an E major chord shape, except you need to fret 4th fret of the low E from time to time while doing that.
Or in my case, rotate my wrist so I can get by little finger over to that 4th fret, which means taking my index finger off the 1st fret.
I can fake it for everything except the bit where I actually need to play G# on the 3rd string and another G# on the 6th string at the same time with 1st and 4th frets.

I'll try perhaps turning the 1st finger as if for a barre chord, and persist with the classical neck position.
I don't know why my little finger turns inwards; if I curl my fingers so they are pointing back up my arm, my little finger is pointing at my thumb, and is partly behind my third finger. That's the root of the problem; doesn't happen so much on my right hand. I can post a picture if that would help understand the problem.

Hopefully I can make it behave with practice; otherwise I'll just have to avoid tunes with 1st to 4th fret stretches.

[SteveBurt]

Well, I managed to play it by cheating a bit.
As well as holding the guitar in classical position I put a capo on fret 3.
I figure that will still sound in harmony with everyone else, and I can actually reach the fret when I do it that way.
I also found that after playing for an hour or so my fingers loosened up a bit and I can (just) reach the fret without using the capo. So some progress; maybe my little finger will eventually co-operate.

[Trevor B.]

Hey Steve, Just a couple of quick thoughts. Position your left thumb at roughly the mid point behind the neck and (to Larry's point about the relax move) avoid squeezing at the front and back of the neck when fretting notes. You just need enough pressure from the tips of your left fingers to get a clean sound. The left thumb is primarily for balance and must remain flexible enough for you to move both vertically within a small parameter and horizontally to a much greater degree as you advance. I also heartily agree that taking advantage of the human hands natural capacity to stretch between 1st and 2nd finger will help facilitate the stretch you're trying to solve. A great starting point for this kind of stretching is to play a little chromatic exercise on each of the six strings. Simply play open, 1st fret-first finger, 2nd fret-second finger, 3rd fret-third finger, 4th fret-fourth finger, then descend 4,3,2,1. The trick is to keep the fingers down on the frets as you ascend so at the top of the little scale all four fingers are in their respective frets. Just lift each finger as you descend. This can eventually become a terrific exercise for ligado practice as well (hammer-ons and pull-offs). Hope this helps.
Trevor

[SteveBurt]

Originally Posted by Trevor B.

Hey Steve, Just a couple of quick thoughts. Position your left thumb at roughly the mid point behind the neck and (to Larry's point about the relax move) avoid squeezing at the front and back of the neck when fretting notes. You just need enough pressure from the tips of your left fingers to get a clean sound. The left thumb is primarily for balance and must remain flexible enough for you to move both vertically within a small parameter and horizontally to a much greater degree as you advance. I also heartily agree that taking advantage of the human hands natural capacity to stretch between 1st and 2nd finger will help facilitate the stretch you're trying to solve. A great starting point for this kind of stretching is to play a little chromatic exercise on each of the six strings. Simply play open, 1st fret-first finger, 2nd fret-second finger, 3rd fret-third finger, 4th fret-fourth finger, then descend 4,3,2,1. The trick is to keep the fingers down on the frets as you ascend so at the top of the little scale all four fingers are in their respective frets. Just lift each finger as you descend. This can eventually become a terrific exercise for ligado practice as well (hammer-ons and pull-offs). Hope this helps.
Trevor

Thanks - but what you describe (one finger per fret), is exactly what I can't do. My little finger simply won't go on the 4th fret if my 1st finger is on the 1st fret (even if I put it there using my other hand); even more so if fingers 2 and 3 are on frets 2 and 3. My little finger curls in behind my 3rd finger and becomes trapped. The only way to get the finger out is to remove the 1st finger from fret 1, then I can rotate my wrist a bit and get the 4th finger somewhere near the 4th fret; although usually if I do that on the base strings, I can't arch it enough to avoid muting at least on other string
This is the basic issue. As soon as I curl my hand round the little finger goes in behind the other three. It's frustrating - everyone else seems to be able to move their little finger out with no problem.

[Bingoccc]

I both stretch and exercise my fingers while watching TV. My fretting fingers can spread wider than my picking hand fingers. I have fairly large hands but my pinky angles in like yours.

When exercising, make sure to spend time spreading your fingers against resistance. I use the fingers of one hand to work against the fingers of the other hand.

Another thing that helps me on long stretches is to turn my entire hand so that the fingers are reaching down (like a mandolin grip or maybe a golf club) rather than just spreading side to side. It changes the contact point on your fingers but I can still make it work to an extent.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by SteveBurt

Thanks - but what you describe (one finger per fret), is exactly what I can't do. My little finger simply won't go on the 4th fret if my 1st finger is on the 1st fret (even if I put it there using my other hand); even more so if fingers 2 and 3 are on frets 2 and 3. My little finger curls in behind my 3rd finger and becomes trapped. The only way to get the finger out is to remove the 1st finger from fret 1, then I can rotate my wrist a bit and get the 4th finger somewhere near the 4th fret; although usually if I do that on the base strings, I can't arch it enough to avoid muting at least on other string
This is the basic issue. As soon as I curl my hand round the little finger goes in behind the other three. It's frustrating - everyone else seems to be able to move their little finger out with no problem.

You have to work on some exercises for that little finger, IMO. Assuming you have normal hands otherwise, it should be able to do what anyone else's little fingers can do.

Little fingers curling in is a common reflex; and it's true that a 1-4 stretch is tricky, even on the same string, for beginners; but all adult players should be able to get to that point with practice (maybe starting with exercises higher up the neck). The guitar is designed the way it is to fit normal hands. Granted, however, the stretch from fret 1 on 3rd string to fret 4 on 6th is further! (I'd be interested to see tab - or a youtube - for the tune you're working on where these octave G#s are both necessary at the same time....)

What I'd suggest is placing the little finger first - forget the others, just get that working, and position the thumb where the little finger can hold its note properly. Then, stretch your index back.

IOW, the problem is usually because we consider our index and middle (in normal life) to be our prime fingers, and the ring and pinky seem peripheral. So we have to counter that by leading with pinky and ring more often. We have to tip the balance in their favour, before they can become equal.
We need to get to the point where we see middle and ring as our central fingers, and index and pinky as equally weighted outsiders. Hand positions where the thumb is equidistant between index and pinky can help, but we usually need to prioritize the pinky before that.
Just try to use the pinky to fret notes more and more; try scale exercises using pinky and ring only, or maybe pinky, ring and middle. Anywhere on the neck where it's comfortable, but just make sure the pinky is working before worrying about the others.
It may take time, but - given enough repetition - the hands can learn pretty much anything. (And what you're doing, essentially, is unlearning lifetime pinky habits; not making it do something physically impossible.)

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by JonPR

What I'd suggest is placing the little finger first - forget the others, just get that working, and position the thumb where the little finger can hold its note properly. Then, stretch your index back.

Totally agree.
During the initial learning stage even when placing the left fingers to make a standard 1st position C chord third and second fingers should be set before the first finger. Rule of thumb???? Or more precisely, rule of left fingers! When in doubt place fingers from pinky back to index in reverse order.

[Dalegreen]

hold your (left) hand in front of you, arm stretched outward, and wrist curled up towards you, fingers facing straight up.
Keep them all touching together, then move your 4th (small) finger away from the rest of the fingers. Do this slowly and stretch it as far away as you can, then slowly bring it back.
This may seem very awkward at first as your muscle motor movement may not respond the way you want it to. Concentrate and watch your finger. Once you get it moving at will, it will perform wonders on the fretboard.
Like other posts have mentioned, the 4th finger does get neglected so often, mostly due to lack of stretching / playing exercises, which can really pay off in the long term if they are applied.

Of course do the same exercise with your right hand. Also expand the exercise by separating fingers in pairs / and stretch index and 4th finger while keeping middle two fingers together.
Hope this makes sense to you all..

[2toss]

Originally Posted by SteveBurt

Thanks - but what you describe (one finger per fret), is exactly what I can't do. My little finger simply won't go on the 4th fret if my 1st finger is on the 1st fret (even if I put it there using my other hand); even more so if fingers 2 and 3 are on frets 2 and 3. My little finger curls in behind my 3rd finger and becomes trapped.

I feel your pain! I have a similar problem, due to breaking my little finger playing basketball 50 years ago. My left little finger is curved in toward the ring finger on the left hand. I've noticed that when my 1st & 4th fingers are on the same string my span is wider. But when my 1st & 4th fingers are on different strings the span is narrower. Having said that, I've seen a couple You Tube videos where the guy is missing parts of some fingers, and he plays very well! So I'm resolved to doing the best I can with what I've got, and hoping that as time goes by my span will slowly increase.