#16
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The funny thing about that, of course, is that the reason all those jazz tunes are in those keys is because the horns are transposing instruments - so while they're looking down on guitarists, bassists and keyboard players for struggling with those keys, they're actually in keys like C, F and G on their instruments! They don't want to do songs in concert C because then they'd have to be playing in Eb, Ab, and Bb :-)
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#17
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I'm a classically trained player but often use a capo when it makes life easier. If someone else is unimpressed all I can do is quote the Dude from the Big Lebowski and say, "Bummer, man". |
#18
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I prefer not to use a capo because I don't want to give up real estate on the neck.
But, sometimes, it's a convenient way to achieve a particular sound or friendly fingering. If I'm in a jam, and there's a complex chord progression I'm not picking up quickly I'll capo up to keep on playing. I like playing chord inversions up and down the neck and the capo is limiting. It's just another tool in the music box, to my mind. yours in tune and gadgets
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amyFb Huss & Dalton CM McKnight MacNaught Breedlove Custom 000 Albert & Mueller S Martin LXE Voyage-Air VM04 Eastman AR605CE |
#19
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#20
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The only reason I don't use a capo is the same as Amy's giving up space.
Open string licks aren't a big part of what i do, so it's not really necessary. For others it's a great tool. But if you genuinely WANT to learn the whole neck, do it. All it can do is expand possibilities. |
#21
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Yep lots of horn players will cry about natural keys . but in all fairness it is very easy for the guitar to transpose that is a place the instrument shines and it is not easy for a horn to transpose.. but the good horn players can transpose easy. I understand the capo is as old as the guitar itself almost. a legitimate part of flamenco music and those cats can shred. does not change we had to fight the stigma that guitar players are musically illiterate. and the stigma still exists this instrument has more musically illiterate players than almost any other instrument. But I am guilty of this also I see someone with a capo I immediately dismiss him as a guitar player and think he can only play in one key and uses his guitar as back up for his vocals . and it is because of jamming with so many capo players who were so limited in what they could do.
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" A old guitar is all he can afford but when he gets under the lights he makes it sing' Last edited by EoE; 01-18-2015 at 12:19 PM. |
#22
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Then there's the issue of trying to at least approximate the tonalities of, let's say, a late Renaissance lute. Pieces fingered in what we would think of as D (diatonic tonality was not yet codified) is rendered now in F for piano or modern ensembles. The best solution on guitar is to capo the 3rd fret.
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#23
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpPs6xUbHZo www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVML_JgdGPQ I just learned a couple of new songs in which are played out of F position, Blind Blake's "Doing A Stretch" and "Turtle Dove Blues" by Peg Leg Howell. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GrXMmdU7vg www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSXpgBFF0 |
#24
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#25
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OP here
Just want to thank everyone for their time and comments. Didn't expect my question to lead to a discussion on the use of capos. But wow, very enlightening!
And in response to Amy FB's recommendation on three- and four-string movable chords, yes, I'm familar with them. Learning them was eye opening. A year or two ago, I didn't understand why some of you said playing the guitar is about learning and employing "shapes." Now I'm nodding my head furiously. |
#26
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Your point is correct, of course - they like their easy keys same as we like ours. And they are even more bound to their home keys, because the fret patterns on guitar can easily be adapted to awkward keys by shifting up or down, keeping the same fingerings (provided you're OK with barre chords, of course, which is the only thing making flat keys tricky on guitar). But if a (say) trumpet player had to play in concert C, he'd be playing in his/her key of D. In my experience, horn players don't usually mind the concert keys of C, G or even D, especially if playing blues or blues-influenced music, because that takes the scales back in a flat direction anyway (naturalising many of the sharps). Where they start getting twitchy is in the keys of A and E - which we love, of course. For an alto or baritone sax player (in Eb), the key of A major is their F# major - and concert E is C# major! Aaargh! (E is F# major for trumpet, tenor sax or clarinet.) And as I said - they can't just stick a capo on, or move a fingering pattern... Their tough keys are much tougher than our tough keys. (Although more experience makes it easier for them, as it does for us.)
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#27
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Yes, of course, Jon. I oversimplified to make the basic point. There are all kinds of different transposing instruments, which sort of guarantees in a typical jazz band or symphony that someone will land in a "hard" key. Some instruments, like flute, are even "C" instruments, so they are in the same boat as guitar, piano, etc.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#28
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As a string player, it gets interesting playing with a guitarist using a capo or even a guitar tuned a step down. D major suddenly becomes Db major!!... so no open strings allowed!lol In this key, the cello for instance, doesn't seem to resonate in that lovely way it does if you're playing in D and the fingerings can get tricky at times.
And don't even get me started on the fact that a B flat and an A sharp are not exactly in the same place either! |