This kid is incredible...

[David Hilyard]

Gil,

Thanks.

No, I haven't done this one. I have the arrangement on my music stand, though. That's a step.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by David Hilyard

Gil,

Thanks.

No, I haven't done this one. I have the arrangement on my music stand, though. That's a step.

David,

We're not picky. Go ahead and post your version after, let's say, twelve or fifteen hundred times practicing it. I'm sure it'll be pretty good by then.

[David Hilyard]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

David,

We're not picky. Go ahead and post your version after, let's say, twelve or fifteen hundred times practicing it. I'm sure it'll be pretty good by then.

Not sure how to take that, Brent. I assume your tongue is stuck in your cheek.

[D. Churchland]

I kind of half agree and half not agree with the previous statements..

I've been following Sungha for a while and there is one thing I noticed about him..

He's extremely young, and it shows greatly in his music, many times when he records, the description for the video says he's only played it for two days. And it shows. Not because he makes mistakes, but because he just sort of rambles through it without much or any dynamics. Now if he practiced it for a week, it might be different, but to me,two days just isn't very long at all to fully learn a piece and add dynamics and different timbres.

So to me, he's good, but he's got a long way to go, but he's still quite young.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by David Hilyard

Not sure how to take that, Brent. I assume your tongue is stuck in your cheek.

Definitely, firmly.

And I'd best keep it there for a while. I either need to lighten up or spend less time posting on Internet forums. Preferably both. Or maybe go practice my barre chords...now that sounds like a plan.

But in all seriousness I'd imagine it could easily take 1,000+ times to really get that percussive groove and the melody working together properly on that arrangement.

[David Hilyard]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Definitely, firmly.

And I'd best keep it there for a while. I either need to lighten up or spend less time posting on Internet forums. Preferably both. Or maybe go practice my barre chords...now that sounds like a plan.

But in all seriousness I'd imagine it could easily take 1,000+ times to really get that percussive groove and the melody working together properly on that arrangement.

While Michael said he played the technique "thousands" of times, I think we all knew he was exaggerating a little, as did he. But not a lot.

I see you are working on Ed Gerhard's "The Water is Wide". It's a cool arrangement and my favorite of that tune. How many times do you suppose you'll play it before you get it anywhere close to Ed's performance of it? It's a pretty simple arrangement compared to Michael's "More Than Words." It might be interesting if you counted. Getting all the nuances is the challenge. Good luck.

[Brent Hutto]

Frankly, I can only dream at this point of even playing The Water is Wide with any sort of musicality. Heck, there are a couple stretches in there I have trouble making on a 24.9" guitar. But the fellow I take lessons from thinks it not an out-of-the-question song to take on as a long-term project. Right now I just play the first 24 bars and then cut to the last few measures without even doing any of the variations in between. And I can't do it clean at half speed after maybe 75-80 times through.

So I was kidding about advising you when to post a clip but the song we're talking about in this thread seems completely out of reach for someone at my beginner level. So if you told me it would take 1,000 times to get it flowing nicely I'd think "Hmmm, that doesn't sound unreasonable".

[David Hilyard]

Good answer, Brent. Thanks.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Definitely, firmly.

And I'd best keep it there for a while. I either need to lighten up or spend less time posting on Internet forums. Preferably both. Or maybe go practice my barre chords...now that sounds like a plan.

But in all seriousness I'd imagine it could easily take 1,000+ times to really get that percussive groove and the melody working together properly on that arrangement.

An interesting side light about repetition, practice and muscle memory ---- I was told by a US diving coach that one reason the Chinese divers and gymnists are so good so young is they screen them at age 5 to 7 pic the ones that seem to have a real aptitude then they have them go into a program where they live, go to school and train 4 to 6 hrs a day with the development coaches from about 8 yrs old on. they do this because the Chinese sports experts feel that it takes (depending on the skill ,talent, etc of the individual, some where between 100,000 to 200,000 repetitions to convert a specific, thought out muscle movement, into an automatic muscle memory movement........ If this is any where close to accurate it would also suggest that the (dynamics and feeling part of playing music ) might come after the conversion (i.e. enough reps) from thinking muscle movements to auto muscle memory movements. This could shed some light on possibly why the young guitarist in this thread seems very talented but maybe hasn't been (on the planet) long enough to bring more dynamics and feeling. give him some time ... time will tell ..........

[David Hilyard]

Originally Posted by KevWind

An interesting side light about repetition, practice and muscle memory ---- I was told by a US diving coach that one reason the Chinese divers and gymnists are so good so young is they screen them at age 5 to 7 pic the ones that seem to have a real aptitude then they have them go into a program where they live, go to school and train 4 to 6 hrs a day with the development coaches from about 8 yrs old on. they do this because the Chinese sports experts feel that it takes (depending on the skill ,talent, etc of the individual, some where between 100,000 to 200,000 repetitions to convert a specific, thought out muscle movement, into an automatic muscle memory movement........ If this is any where close to accurate it would also suggest that the (dynamics and feeling part of playing music ) might come after the conversion (i.e. enough reps) from thinking muscle movements to auto muscle memory movements. This could shed some light on possibly why the young guitarist in this thread seems very talented but maybe hasn't been (on the planet) long enough to bring more dynamics and feeling. give him some time ... time will tell ..........

That's very interesting info, Kevin. Thanks for that input. I'd like to hear this little guy play this same arrangement about 5 years from now, assuming he continues to play it regularly. I'd bet what is lacking (which isn't much) will be there.

I found another tune Sungha plays that is an Ed Gerhard arrangement, a player who exudes dynamics. I find nothing whatsoever lacking in his playing of this. While it's not a technically difficult arrangement, it is one that requires the proper dynamics to come off well. Sungha shines here. IMO. Ed's version has a cool swimming reverb that adds some richness, but Sungha's playing of it is spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5vnOQYBYWc

Sungha has a mere 112 videos up of tunes. With fans and jamming partners like Thomas Leeb and Ulli Boegershausen, I'd say this kid is going places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5k7V...eature=related

And then there's this. I've been trying to work up a solo fingerstyle instrumental of this for several years. Sungha plays Eric Roche's very cool arrangement of this exciting tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-jqABre7ug

[mmmaak]

I have 12 students, most of whom are teenagers and young kids, so I'm the last person to be over-critical of a 12-year-old's playing.

Having said that, Sungha is obviously no ordinary kid, and as a child prodigy, his playing should also be judged by more appropriate standards. Yes, it's probably true that he learns extremely fast and posts many of his videos after only practising a couple of times, so surely the dynamics of a song can't be learnt with such limited rehearsal. But that begs the question, why would he post videos of half-baked playing in the first place? If he could just take an extra day or two to work on phrasing and dynamics, I'm sure listeners will "feel" the songs much more. Emotion in a song may take a lifetime of personal experience to convey convincingly, but I think it can be "simulated" to a certain extent by paying enough attention to the original recording.

Originally Posted by David Hilyard

I found another tune Sungha plays that is an Ed Gerhard arrangement, a player who exudes dynamics. I find nothing whatsoever lacking in his playing of this. While it's not a technically difficult arrangement, it is one that requires the proper dynamics to come off well. Sungha shines here. IMO. Ed's version has a cool swimming reverb that adds some richness, but Sungha's playing of it is spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5vnOQYBYWc

It's funny you should mention that video David, because in my opinion, Moon River is one of the least suitable songs for him to attempt since it's almost entirely about dynamics and phrasing with very little "hardcore" technique involved. To me, the delivery was quite devoid of emotion and really not that much better than my own attempts (and I'm hardly a great player myself!). Ed Gerhard's delivery is completely ethereal, and the contrast in this case is simply too great to overlook.

Of course, all my comments result from taking his playing at face-value. Judged as a regular 12-year-old, I don't think anyone will deny that it's short of fantastic

[rick-slo]

The kid is a pretty amazing player. His interpretation of the piece was not bad and might come across better with a cleaner sounding recording setup. Of course if your standard for the piece is exactly the way Chapdelaine plays it then of course Chapdelaine will come out ahead of anyone. My only concern is that the kid really enjoys playing and is not being pushed by the parents and that the kid has enough time to go outside and play and just be a kid.
Rick

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

My only concern is that the kid really enjoys playing and is not being pushed by the parents and that the kid has enough time to go outside and play and just be a kid.
Rick

+1 on that. But from what I've read, Sungha genuinely enjoys playing and practices during school breaks. It's such a turnoff towards music when some kids are forced to play and take exams, especially

[David Hilyard]

mmmaak,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on "Moon River". Strange how different people hear different things in the same performance. Ed's performance is indeed ethereal, but much of it has to do with his reverb in the recording. And of course, Ed's phrasing is Ed's alone. Still, I'm not finding Sungha's performance "quite devoid of emotion". I think he's doing fine.

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by David Hilyard

mmmaak,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on "Moon River". Strange how different people hear different things in the same performance. Ed's performance is indeed ethereal, but much of it has to do with his reverb in the recording. And of course, Ed's phrasing is Ed's alone. Still, I'm not finding Sungha's performance "quite devoid of emotion". I think he's doing fine.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by Ed's performance . I have, after all, heard it about a thousand times (OK, that's exaggerating like Chapdelaine).
I'll give Sungha's another listen, just to be fair and see if it moves me more a second time around.

Though the reverb is pretty characteristic of Ed's version, I believe that it can still sound pretty good with the right phrasing and appropriate use of vibrato, minus any artificially added reverb. Heck, maybe I'll be man enough to take a stab at it once I get a decent audio recorder!