Fishman Rare Earth Blend - low signal output?

[mjsb1]

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone else with a rare earth blend had experienced a low signal output? I'm having to really crank the gain and levels both in the studio and live! When used live, I only ever have the magnetic pickup on (to avoid feedback). I thought it was only a problem live - I'd believed, due to trying to balance a Nord keyboard, however after recording yesterday (with both sources), the signal was noticeably low. Any tips or thoughts would be appreciated!

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by mjsb1

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone else with a rare earth blend had experienced a low signal output? I'm having to really crank the gain and levels both in the studio and live! When used live, I only ever have the magnetic pickup on (to avoid feedback). I thought it was only a problem live - I'd believed, due to trying to balance a Nord keyboard, however after recording yesterday (with both sources), the signal was noticeably low. Any tips or thoughts would be appreciated!

What are you plugging into?

Louis

[mjsb1]

Originally Posted by lschwart

What are you plugging into?

Louis

Hi Louis, I'd been going through an AER compact 60 when the room on stage permitted, and when it doesn't, I run direct, often through a boss OC-3 effecting 2 bass strings just to fill the sound. Even when recording and using the AER as a pre the signal had to be really cranked in the interface and later, the DAW.

[guitaniac]

Doesn't this pickup operate on a 3v battery? If so, it seems logical that the output signal would be on a smaller scale than you'd typically get from a system powered by a 9v supply. The system's gain needs to be set low enough that the peak output signal (when playing hard) won't overdrive the 3v supply.

[TRW1]

I used to run a Rare Earth Humbucker in my guitar, I always had to use an outboard preamp to both boost the signal and get a decent EQ. I used a simple little Fishman Pro EQ or LR Baggs GigPro belt clip model. I always felt the signal was too weak to run direct to a PA without the preamp to boost it.

[lschwart]

If the cranked input gain of the amp or mixer don't cause problems--for example, by amplifying too much noise--then this is probably just one end of the variety of signals your mixer and amp are designed to take. With the gain staging set in an optimal way (output of the pickup up high enough and the gain on the amp or mixer set to an appropriate sensitivity, you should be fine. If it's noisy or distorted, however, that's a different matter and may require another preamp in line the way TRW1 suggests.

For what it's worth, I have to use a preamp with my Baggs M1 (also a hum bucking mag., although a passive one) when I go into my mixers for exactly this reason. Just not a particularly strong signal, and it gets noisy when I have to crank the gain on the mixer input. I don't have to do it this way with either of my two combo amps, however (a Genz Benz ProLT and a Fishman Artist), both have enough gain on the inputs and way more than enough power at the power amp level to handle the M1 without another preamp and little added noise.

Acoustic combo amps are usually designed with a wide variety of inputs signs levels in mind, since they're sold to people who use all sorts of different pickup systems.

Louis

[DupleMeter]

I used a RareEarth blend in 3 guitars for a while. The output is quite low and requires significant boost. I suggest a high-quality preamp with lots of clean gain.

Using a solstice & the pickup wired stereo (so mag & mic were separate) was my best solution before I stopped using them. I found that being able to gain & EQ the 2 sources differently was key to using the mic live.

FWIW - I would roll off lows on the mic and roll off highs on the mag.

[jomaynor]

I have the REB, and, yes, the signal from the 3v is definitely low, compared to a typical active pickup.

I'm MUCH more satisfied with the REB nowadays, though, now that I use the ART Tube MP with it. It keeps the best attributes of the REB - its airiness and relatively realistic sound - while making the output stronger and fuller.

[mjsb1]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Doesn't this pickup operate on a 3v battery? If so, it seems logical that the output signal would be on a smaller scale than you'd typically get from a system powered by a 9v supply. The system's gain needs to be set low enough that the peak output signal (when playing hard) won't overdrive the 3v supply.

You are correct, thats a good observation actually. I'm even considering putting something passive in (for ease of ruling out guitar problems) and just get a decent pre, equally, I personally feel the output couldn't get much lower so I don't feel I'd be loosing anything to go down the passive route

[mjsb1]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I used a RareEarth blend in 3 guitars for a while. The output is quite low and requires significant boost. I suggest a high-quality preamp with lots of clean gain.

Using a solstice & the pickup wired stereo (so mag & mic were separate) was my best solution before I stopped using them. I found that being able to gain & EQ the 2 sources differently was key to using the mic live.

FWIW - I would roll off lows on the mic and roll off highs on the mag.

I feel this is the next step I'm reaching, wiring it in stereo, and as you suggest, getting a decent pre to mix the sources differently, ideally with a HPF for the mic and general EQ.... But I can't help but feel like yourself, it's nearing the end of the line for the REB. Out of curiosity, what did you switch over to?

[mjsb1]

Originally Posted by jomaynor

I have the REB, and, yes, the signal from the 3v is definitely low, compared to a typical active pickup.

I'm MUCH more satisfied with the REB nowadays, though, now that I use the ART Tube MP with it. It keeps the best attributes of the REB - its airiness and relatively realistic sound - while making the output stronger and fuller.

Interesting choice of pre - not one I've personally encountered before, but will certainly look into it! Do you run this with the mono signal or have you wired your REB in stereo?

[mjsb1]

Originally Posted by lschwart

If the cranked input gain of the amp or mixer don't cause problems--for example, by amplifying too much noise--then this is probably just one end of the variety of signals your mixer and amp are designed to take. With the gain staging set in an optimal way (output of the pickup up high enough and the gain on the amp or mixer set to an appropriate sensitivity, you should be fine. If it's noisy or distorted, however, that's a different matter and may require another preamp in line the way TRW1 suggests.

For what it's worth, I have to use a preamp with my Baggs M1 (also a hum bucking mag., although a passive one) when I go into my mixers for exactly this reason. Just not a particularly strong signal, and it gets noisy when I have to crank the gain on the mixer input. I don't have to do it this way with either of my two combo amps, however (a Genz Benz ProLT and a Fishman Artist), both have enough gain on the inputs and way more than enough power at the power amp level to handle the M1 without another preamp and little added noise.

Acoustic combo amps are usually designed with a wide variety of inputs signs levels in mind, since they're sold to people who use all sorts of different pickup systems.

Louis

See, that is why I miss the luxury of having the amp on stage with me. Thankfully though, I haven't hit a noisy or distorted signal, but still, solving the issue with a pre, (regardless of pickup perhaps) seems like the way forward.

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by mjsb1

Interesting choice of pre - not one I've personally encountered before, but will certainly look into it! Do you run this with the mono signal or have you wired your REB in stereo?

I use it mono. The Tube MP was recommended to me by a luthier that I trust - and he was right on the mark. Inexpensive, too.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...dio-mic-preamp