Comparing two guitars - Lucky 13 and X20

[mot]

After reading some remarks from another thread, I felt I should respond with a comparison of the two CF guitars I have. I am actually a brass player who has shifted over to guitars and has no interest other than to play what works best for me. These days I play guitar about 8-15 hours a week and might even sit in with locals if the timing works out. Mostly I play at home though.

Bottom Line - There might be better acoustic guitars out there even in the CF field, but I haven't found any that were noticeably better than the Emerald X20. I have a 2013 version, so I can't speak for what Alistair was doing earlier. I also have a 2014 Blackbird Lucky 13 from Joe and will try to make useful comments on both of these.

If I had to describe my ideal wood guitar, it would probably be a mid range Taylor. On the CF front I have also played Rainsongs and CA though I just couldn't bring myself to bring one home. If I had met these guitars in a different order I could see myself with other brands in the house because both were great though I probably would lean toward a particular Rainsong I have had my eye on.

I judge a guitar in basically three areas: sound, comfort and looks.

Sound: I don't know that my X20 is the best I have ever heard. It's good enough. I like it for strumming or for picking though if I am only picking I will use the Lucky 13 unless I need to go way up the neck.

I really like the haunting quality of the Lucky 13. It mesmerizes me when I am picking single notes or double stops.

I am still looking for that perfect sound.

Comfort: I should separate this into two categories: playing and holding. For playing the X20 is OK. It's not noticeably better or worse than the best guitars I have ever played. The neck shape works for me though I couldn't tell you the difference in necks. I can only tell you if I like it or not. I think I would like a shorter scale to try out, but I am perfectly happy with my X20's 25.5" scale as it is. I like playing the Lucky 13 and just can't put it down with its shorter scale and easier bends all else being equal.

On the holding side the X20 blows everything else out of the water that I have ever played. There might be more comfortable guitars out there, but I can sit or stand with this guitar for hours without problems. It is light enough (I don't know if it is lighter than my Lucky 13 or not) and has the right curves in the right places but your mileage may vary as I am on the tall skinny side.

The Lucky digs into my arm if I am sitting with it too long and/or hunched over, but is perfectly fine standing. I usually go with the X20 if I only take one guitar because it sounds better across a larger volume range just in case I get excited and am strumming too heavily.

Looks: The X20 is a different looking guitar and I wasn't sure I would like it, but I don't care anymore because it's such a great guitar comfort wise. What I don't like about my X20 is the electronics with the barn door. I also had to tape up the wires inside so they don't rattle too much, but otherwise it works fine.

The Lucky 13 is probably the winner when it comes to looks only because it has the more classic look of what someone expects a guitar to look like.

These are just my opinions based on living with both these guitars these last couple of years. I thought this might be useful to stir the flames of those who are trying to make a decision on what to do with their Christmas bonus.

[Earl49]

Nice review, Mot. There are few people out there who have hands-on experience with both brands. I've had a new Lucky 13 for about five weeks now, and I'm absolutely loving it. Everything else has hardly been touched since it arrived. I've never had the opportunity to hold or play any Emerald.

I get what you say about "classic appearance". L13 looks like an old Gibson LG in black. (For the record, Lucky is almost exactly the same size as a Taylor GC body, but with a slightly different shape). The Emeralds are surely a bit more ergonomic, taking full advantage of the molding process to add curves in "all the right places".

I won't speak otherwise to comfort, since I must play every guitar and ukulele with a strap these days. When I have held L13 on my leg it has been great, with the guitar's waist locking in nicely on my left thigh. But that does not work long term for me (more than 15-20 minutes). The neck and shorter scale sure feel wonderful though.

I too have mostly been a Taylor GA guy, with a Rainsong WS-1000 thrown into the mix too. Wood guitars are slowly leaving the house in favor of low maintenance CF replacements. At one point there were nine Taylors around here, but down to six now. Three more could leave as soon as I get them listed on CL. They might sit a while, since I am in no hurry to cash out and will not give them away for pennies on the dollar. That's OK - I have been doing the humidity dance for nearly 20 years, and another few months won't hurt me. Drifting off topic a bit, my opinion of El Capitan is that is sounds very Taylor-esque, much like my 414.

Mot;

Great review! The x20 is a remarkable guitar; beautiful, playable, and sweet sounding.

[mot]

I agree that the X20 is an amazing guitar. It's the one I reach for most. Hopefully this paired review will be useful to someone looking into possibly getting something along these lines. There are many other qualities both have that I could go on and on about but those qualities are inherent in all CF guitars and has been covered by others.

I was mainly trying to distinguish between these two though I also have an electric PRS and a baritone uke in my usual line up. Among the strings I still have a mandolin, some fiddles and even a cello around the house, but between my poor skill, ergonomics, travel-bility and/or sharper sounds, I will either let them go or pass them on to the kids. Yes the Lucky reminds me of the old jangly Gibsons, so that was part of the appeal in getting it after I already had the X20. Something I don't like about the X20 is that the button is actually a jack. I wish the jack and button were separate but that's easily remedied by the intelligent consumer.

[Long Jon]

Originally Posted by mot

---------------------edit--------------------------
Something I don't like about the X20 is that the button is actually a jack. I wish the jack and button were separate but that's easily remedied by the intelligent consumer.

I find this with practically ALL acoustic guitars with p/ups, I have no confidence in the combined strap-button/jacks. Just not very secure without fitting third-party devices.
I have yet to see a strap that was made to fit these that you don't have to punch the hole out bigger for that end.

I have an old Fender acoustic (honest, it's really not that bad!) that has factory p/u with the jack installed in, let's call it the "Telecaster position".

This makes perfect sense to me and if it wasn't sacrilege, I'd be tempted to do it to my Martin.
As it is , I nearly always play seated, so I'll leave it be.

Another good strap-button position (for the neck end) is again like a Telecaster, which is the same as the Emerald's .
This seems better to me than the under the heel position as is usual on most acoustics now.

On close examination of my X 7, I notice that the jack is actually installed off-centre, more round towards the lower (nearer floor) side, making it an ideal candidate for the installation of a separate end button higher (nearer armpit) side.

It's a heckuva tricky reach in there tho', I can only just get my long skinny arm in the OS soundhole far enough to touch the end pin area with my fingertip.
I may have to employ a small child who's handy with a spanner !

[Pine]

Originally Posted by mot

Sound: I think I would like a shorter scale to try out, but I am perfectly happy with my X20's 25.5" scale as it is. I like playing the Lucky 13 and just can't put it down with its shorter scale and easier bends all else being equal.

On the holding side the X20 blows everything else out of the water that I have ever played. There might be more comfortable guitars out there, but I can sit or stand with this guitar for hours without problems. It is light enough (I don't know if it is lighter than my Lucky 13 or not) and has the right curves in the right places but your mileage may vary as I am on the tall skinny side.

Nice comparison Mot! I am hoping to acquire a carbon-fiber fingerstyle guitar, but need a smaller body size like the L13 I have. Does the X20 feel larger than the L13?

My ideal X20 would be a 12 fret Opus, with 24-3/4" scale and 2-5/16" at the bridge.

[thaichine]

Pine, it looks like you have a Lucky 13 and an x7? How do they compare to each other? Also does anyone have any insight as to how much larger an x20 feels as compared to a x7?

[mot]

Originally Posted by Pine

Does the X20 feel larger than the L13?

Yes and no.

No: The body of the X20 actually feels smaller than the Lucky 13 in some ways. I don't know that it is though and rather just feels that way because of the contours of the X20 where the Lucky 13 has the more classic shape.

Yes: The X20 neck feels longer though (which it is in my case). Also the X20 neck doesn't feel as "alive" as the Lucky 13. Not sure I can quantify this feeling any better.

I have never touched an X7 so I don't know any useful comparisons there. I have sat/stood with a Cargo and I really like the fret width, but the Cargo feels so tiny in my hands otherwise. It almost feels like holding a Mandolin to me though the sound is definitely guitar and beats most if not all small guitars such as the Martin Mini and the Baby Taylor. If I had to choose between a GS Mini and a Cargo all else equal I would probably go with a Cargo because of the larger fret board width. I think the Cargo edges it out in bottom too FWIW. I am not really a Cargo expert, so don't count on my recollections being very accurate.

Also, as another comparison that may be too far afield, my PRS is a Bernie Marsden which can be found fairly easily if you haven't held one though only on the used side these days. The Marsden neck isn't as wide as I would like, but it's much heavier (it is solid body) and smaller feeling than the Lucky 13. It doesn't really feel much smaller than the X20 even though the X20 is bigger than the Lucky 13 and of course both acoustics are thicker than the PRS Marsden (AKA mini Beast).

Lastly for those last minute Christmas shoppers is my favorite uke. I have a Pono baritone uke which I got last Christmas. It looks like a miniature Mahogany Baby Taylor (about 2/3 the length), but plays as well if not better. I can even sneak it in my larger clothes luggage bag if needed. It's the most fragile instrument that I play regularly, so I tend to keep it wrapped up and tucked away most of the time. What I like about it is that it has the same four high strings (D G B E) as a guitar so I don't have to transpose one whit going from guitar to this uke. Because the two lower strings aren't there it causes me to rethink chords which helps my guitar playing. It's a money maker too as I can busk for supper with it if I am stuck somewhere near a crowd because at least I have an instrument to play.

[Earl49]

I would second your comments on GS Mini versus CA Cargo. My wife had a Mini for a couple of years, but as soon as she picked up the Cargo, the GS Mini went up for sale. Cargo plays so nicely, even with that short scale, and sounds bigger than it should. Since I also play a lot of ukulele, the smaller Cargo body does not bother me.

The Pono baritone would be sweet. I have a beautiful eight string Pono tenor in koa, a fine instrument. I have even considered converting it to a wide-necked four string with a new nut. I like the sound but don't play it often as I should (much like a six versus twelve string guitar).

[mot]

Not to derail the comments here too much, but my big dislike with my Pono baritone is that it doesn't have a strap button. I almost dropped it a couple of times walking around because I get all excited while strumming and fretting and sometimes forget the holding-on-to-it part.

There is probably an easy fix for this, and I am considering radical methods like putting enough duct tape on the bottom of the big bout to be done with this problem. However, I don't want to screw up the wood or finish so I try to sit whenever I am playing it and not walk/stand around too much.

This would have been a factor in my decision making if I was hunting for a baritone uke, but this was a gift. I like it enough not to try to change it up just yet. Also have to make sure I don't offend the giver too much.

[Steve Christens]

Originally Posted by mot

Something I don't like about the X20 is that the button is actually a jack. I wish the jack and button were separate but that's easily remedied by the intelligent consumer.

Absolutely agree! And I noticed that Martin has started doing this on some of their models. I got tired of the endpin jack setup on my GX, and wanted to install a Schaller strap lock, so I followed Wade Miller's advice and just added the new endpin half way between the existing endpin jack and the top. Then I removed the existing "washer" on the endpin jack and recessed it a bit. Might look a bit strange, but no one notices, and it functions just fine. If I were going to order an X20 (which I HAVE been tempted to do....) I would ask them to do something similar.

I purchased a ukulele recently and specifically did not buy locally because the one in town already had an endpin jack setup.

[mot]

Nice. I might have to try something like that. Don't want to screw up the instruments, so I will get all the parts together and think about it for a while and maybe even practice on a piece of plywood.

[Steve Christens]

Originally Posted by mot

Nice. I might have to try something like that. Don't want to screw up the instruments, so I will get all the parts together and think about it for a while and maybe even practice on a piece of plywood.

Good idea. I was indeed pretty nervous drilling that extra hole! And by the way, the best way to mount that Schaller endpin is with a bolt, washer, and nyloc nut, NOT a wood screw.

[Emerald Guitars]

Hi all,

We saw the discussion regarding retrofitting strap pins and thought we would stop by with some information which we hope you will find useful.

If you would like to retrofit/relocate a strap pin we would recommend that you keep it centred with the old strap button/jack location and move it up about an 1” to 1 1/2” towards the top side of the guitar.

Drill out a 4mm hole and use a 4mm bolt rather than a wood screw that normally comes with a strap button. As there is no heel block, the wood screw would just pull back out again. That is why we use a bolt with a washer on the inside. Below is a photo of the bolt for your reference.

If someone places and order with us, we are more than happy to place the jack plug to the lower side of the guitar and add a standard strap button.

Best Wishes

Sean

IMG_5964 by Alistair Hay, on Flickr

[claudel]

Is the body on an Emerald too thin to accept an Electrosocket?

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_...ack_Mount.html

Thanks...