1920 Gibson A Style Mandy with Stuck Tuning Gear

[Charmed Life Picks]

I bought a nice 1920 Gibson A-Style mandolin a few months back and a friend is interested in buying it. The only real problem is one of the original tuning gears is frozen in position and won't break free. All the other gears work great. There is no sign of rust or damage.

What do you suggest to loosen this gear? Is it possible powdered graphite might do the trick?

Thanks!

[Bingoccc]

Some type of penetrating oil may work a little better. Can you get the screw out and lift the gear out ?

http://www.mandolinluthier.com/Hfurniture.htm

[Teleman52]

This is the number one resource for tuning gear restoration over at the mandolin cafe, for good reason. This is a true expert writing this article and this stuff works.

http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html


That said, i have an A JR, with tuning gears like this



These are terrible (he mentioned it in the article.) I just bought some stew mac restoration a style tuners and kept the originals stored away safely in case i ever want to sell it.

If you have these tuners i recommend you do the same.

But the other A styles usually have waverlies and can definitley be restored as they were built well

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Teleman52

This is the number one resource for tuning gear restoration over at the mandolin cafe, for good reason. This is a true expert writing this article and this stuff works.

http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html


That said, i have an A JR, with tuning gears like this



These are terrible (he mentioned it in the article.) I just bought some stew mac restoration a style tuners and kept the originals stored away safely in case i ever want to sell it.

If you have these tuners i recommend you do the same.

But the other A styles usually have waverlies and can definitley be restored as they were built well

Teleman, thanks, I'll look at that link when I have a bit more time. I was thinking exactly the same thing: to replace it with new gears but keep the originals in the case. I'm wanting to keep it as original as possible. My buddy who's thinking of buying it already owns the same mandolin, so he's aware of the gear situation.

Is there a good place online to buy replacement gears at a good price? I assume someplace like Mandolin Bros has all that stuff, but probably at full retail price.

I'll check back in a bit.

Thank You!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Bingoccc

Some type of penetrating oil may work a little better. Can you get the screw out and lift the gear out ?

http://www.mandolinluthier.com/Hfurniture.htm

Bing, thanks. I have different kinds of penetrating oil, of course, but I wanted to bounce this off someone who knew more about this than me (like you guys) before doing anything like that.

Thanks!

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by charmedlife417

Teleman, thanks, I'll look at that link when I have a bit more time. I was thinking exactly the same thing: to replace it with new gears but keep the originals in the case. I'm wanting to keep it as original as possible. My buddy who's thinking of buying it already owns the same mandolin, so he's aware of the gear situation.

Is there a good place online to buy replacement gears at a good price? I assume someplace like Mandolin Bros has all that stuff, but probably at full retail price.

I'll check back in a bit.

Thank You!

when replacing old gibson mandolin tuners, its important to do some measuring first, AND note whether you have "worm over" or "worm under"


Heres an example, in case you dont know what i mean



the ones on the left are worm over, the ones on the right are worm under.

-Its best to have worm over tuners actually. Something about string pull and fulcrums, technical jargon blah.

Since you say its a 20s model, its possible you have worm under. Sometime in the 20s EVERYONE switched to worm over tuners EXCEPT for F model mandolins. Simply because it messed with the aesthetics of the headstock to have worm over, the tuner post dont line up with the curves of the headstock, they were designed with worm under tuners in mind.

anyway, if you have worm under tuners, stewmac is the definite best place to go. Im not even sure if there are any other options. They have measurements listed in the details section, make sure theyre correct.

These are the ones im talking about, i have these on my a jr and they are a major improvement
http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_..._Mandolin.html

If theyre worm over you have plenty of options but again, make sure the measurements are right before you order

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Teleman52

when replacing old gibson mandolin tuners, its important to do some measuring first, AND note whether you have "worm over" or "worm under"


Heres an example, in case you dont know what i mean



the ones on the left are worm over, the ones on the right are worm under.

-Its best to have worm over tuners actually. Something about string pull and fulcrums, technical jargon blah.

Since you say its a 20s model, its possible you have worm under. Sometime in the 20s EVERYONE switched to worm over tuners EXCEPT for F model mandolins. Simply because it messed with the aesthetics of the headstock to have worm over, the tuner post dont line up with the curves of the headstock, they were designed with worm under tuners in mind.

anyway, if you have worm under tuners, stewmac is the definite best place to go. Im not even sure if there are any other options. They have measurements listed in the details section, make sure theyre correct.

These are the ones im talking about, i have these on my a jr and they are a major improvement
http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_..._Mandolin.html

If theyre worm over you have plenty of options but again, make sure the measurements are right before you order

Teleman, thanks again. Here's a pic of the rear of the headstock, a good closeup of the tuning gears. I would prefer to lube and repair them, if possible, versus replacment, since I don't plan on keeping the instrument and am trying to minimize my costs and just break even.

The gear that's sticking is the second (upper) gear on the high E string.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Can anyone explain why my photobucket image won't display? I pasted the link directly into the thread using the correct URL, but it won't show in the thread.

[GerryinAZ]

I've owned a few of these old Gibsons. They are sweet little players, as long as they weren't treated too roughly throughout the years.

Speaking from unfortunate experience, I recommend not wasting too much time trying to get the old tuners back into shape. Consider they weren't the most robust mechanisms when they were new. So, why waste time and effort trying to get something back into mediocre shape?

As was said above, replacing mandolin tuners can be precarious. Do your research to make sure you are getting the right fit for your situation. Or, take a couple of pics and email them to Stew-Mac with some background info, year/model, on the mando and they should be able to give you the options for replacement. Pictures are critical. Good shots of the peghead, front and back.

Stew-Mac stuff is fairly priced, and they have a great selection.

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by GerryinAZ

. Consider they weren't the most robust mechanisms when they were new. So, why waste time and effort trying to get something back into mediocre shape?

If the op has anything other than an a junior model (ie: A, A1, A3, A4), I disagree with this. The original tuners for those were made by waverly and were made quite well. They can usually be restored

[GerryinAZ]

Originally Posted by Teleman52

If the op has anything other than an a junior model (ie: A, A1, A3, A4), I disagree with this. The original tuners for those were made by waverly and were made quite well. They can usually be restored

Waverly's from that era were nowhere near what they are today. Don't be fooled by the name.

Certainly they can be restored, but for provenance reasons only. Performance will not be what replacing with new will provide. And, I say this from multiple personal experiences.

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by GerryinAZ

Waverly's from that era were nowhere near what they are today. Don't be fooled by the name.

Certainly they can be restored, but for provenance reasons only. Performance will not be what replacing with new will provide. And, I say this from multiple personal experiences.

Well I think waverly has always made great tuners, that's how they established the reputation they have. It's not just a name thing

But that's besides the point, yes new tuners would probably work better. Remember though, the op is selling this mandolin. So functioning original tuners would help him get a better value AND it would be cheaper for the op to restore them than to buy new tuners so it seems like the obvious thing to do if the op wants the most money out of the sale (of course he/she does)

[frankmcr]

Sell it the way it is and let the buyer decide what to do about the tuners.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Folks, thanks for all your great input. After I posted this thread I went to play the mandolin (it had been about a month since I played it) and the stuck tuning gear had completely resolved itself on its own. It now tunes normally like the other seven gears.

Really weird. Before, it would barely turn with the full force of my hand; now it's totally normal. Go figure. I squirted a tiny amount of tri-flow on all eight gears, for insurance more than anything else, and now we're good to go.

Thank you. I'm sure this information will be handy in the future.

Best,
Charmed Life

[GerryinAZ]

Originally Posted by Teleman52

Well I think waverly has always made great tuners, that's how they established the reputation they have. It's not just a name thing

You aren't the only one who thinks this, but you're wrong. Do a little homework. Better yet, get your hands on a few and you will see the light.