Mysterious Haunted La Patrie Strings;

Eclectic Guitar · #1 03-08-2016, 11:50 AM

re: La Patrie Concert Classical cutaway w/pickup;

Recently I rented a La Patrie classical.

But I hear a weird sound out of the two higher strings when I play it acoustically for some reason.

-These two strings actually sound "Flanged" (as with Flanger FX). I got to wonder what's up with that, (& if it is correctable).

I'm new to nylon string guitars so I don't have any idea as to the chances that this sound anomaly is with the strings themselves, or some small loose wooden piece inside the instrument vibrating.

I need a knowledgeable opinion of all this, -perhaps someone has also had this sound effect with their nylon ?

How are the Patrie classical regarded -quality wise ? (compared to Yamahas & others in the same price range?)

I have to opportunity to purchase this Patrie at a 2nd-hand price (with my rental fee taken off), but I really need to know if & how I can fix this subtle strange sound with these upper two strings.

-Maybe cheaper nylon string guitars sound like this ??

This La Patrie model that I'm presently renting is by no means the most expensive classical or nylon string. -It may or may not prove to be what I need, (right now the weird high string flanged sound is a deciding issue.)

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Eclectic Guitar

Ned Milburn · #2 03-08-2016, 04:05 PM

I can only hazard a wild guess at what the "flanging" sound is. (A DOD flanger was my first electric effects pedal - fun!!) It COULD be (but certainly not certain) some bad strings. Best thing is to first try new strings.

La Patrie are fine guitars for their price range. Certainly not concert classical guitars, but then again, they don't cost $10k. ;-) Very fine entry level classical guitars.

dosland · #3 03-08-2016, 07:32 PM

I'm with Ned, these are usually pretty good instruments for the price point. I'm not exactly clear on what the "flanged" sound you're hearing is - do the (high E and B?) strings make this noise when fretted? When left open? Strummed hard? Plucked? Can you reproduce the flanging by producing the harmonics to match on other strings or by playing the same note on a different string? Is the sound coming from the headstock/nut area (are there string ends vibrating against the headstock?), or from down near the bridge? Without actually being able to see/hear the issue, providing some of these specifics might be helpful. Please report back, I love a good detective story!

Paraclete · #4 03-08-2016, 07:38 PM

It's possible the strings are somewhat twisted, though that is more common with the wound strings. Take a look at the string vibrating when you pluck it. Does it look straight or does it have a weird pattern to it? Also take a look at the tiedowns at the bridge. Sometime the string ends can vibrate against the top if they are not well-secured or too long.

If all else fails, put new strings on it.

Eclectic Guitar · #5 03-09-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosland

I'm with Ned, these are usually pretty good instruments for the price point. I'm not exactly clear on what the "flanged" sound you're hearing is - do the (high E and B?) strings make this noise when fretted? When left open? Strummed hard? Plucked? Can you reproduce the flanging by producing the harmonics to match on other strings or by playing the same note on a different string? Is the sound coming from the headstock/nut area (are there string ends vibrating against the headstock?), or from down near the bridge? Without actually being able to see/hear the issue, providing some of these specifics might be helpful. Please report back, I love a good detective story!

I only notice this odd sonic nuance about "three quarters up the neck" -around the 7th to the 11th fret on the E, B, and perhaps even the G strings when I playing a bit of lead in a blues or popular music style.

-Lately I again played this La Patrie (-after I wrote this post), and didn't hear this effect as much... -I must test out the guitar again and also visually check it out carefully (this time) again to see if anything could be loose somewhere that could be giving this subtle sound-effect.

I suppose as I wouldn't be able to record with it -should this odd problem persist that I should return it to the music store where I rented it for a month. (-I'll take a good look at it first though.)

janepaints · #6 03-09-2016, 01:24 PM

other possible sources of odd sounds:

1. string end at either bridge or tuning pegs touching another surface and sympathetically vibrating to certain pitches/notes.

2. loose brace--this could obviously be a problem with a rental instrument if some previous renter mistreated it/dropped it etc.

3. loose truss rod--sounds stemming from loose or broken truss rods can be maddening, especially since sometimes it's difficult to pinpoint just WHERE the sound is originating from.

if the 'phasing' sound is indeed originating from some element other than the strings themselves try hitting the notes which cause the sounds while placing your ear very close to the guitar at points all over the body, neck and headstock..and listening very carefully--i've located unsuspected sources of 'odd tones' that way several times.

Eclectic Guitar · #7 03-10-2016, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janepaints

other possible sources of odd sounds:

1. string end at either bridge or tuning pegs touching another surface and sympathetically vibrating to certain pitches/notes.

2. loose brace--this could obviously be a problem with a rental instrument if some previous renter mistreated it/dropped it etc.

3. loose truss rod--sounds stemming from loose or broken truss rods can be maddening, especially since sometimes it's difficult to pinpoint just WHERE the sound is originating from.

if the 'phasing' sound is indeed originating from some element other than the strings themselves try hitting the notes which cause the sounds while placing your ear very close to the guitar at points all over the body, neck and headstock..and listening very carefully--i've located unsuspected sources of 'odd tones' that way several times.

Thank you very much for this excellent thread reply, (& all of the other replies too). This information shall be extremely helpful even in conversing with the guitar guy, (they do have a certain fellow who maintains the guitars) at the music store where I rented it.

ZippyChip · #8 03-11-2016, 07:48 AM

I tried one of these guitars many years back and I actually liked the tone of the guitar--it was woodie.
I found the same problem after having it for a week and returned it. The company that I returned it to commented that they could not find anything wrong. But, it WAS there.
I think if I was a tech I could pick it up and play it for a few minutes and decide the same thing. I thought it was my particular instrument but maybe there is an issue with this model.
Now, to be fair, I also found a similar issue with a custom built guitar I bought and returned it also.

Eclectic Guitar · #9 03-11-2016, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZippyChip

I tried one of these guitars many years back and I actually liked the tone of the guitar--it was woodie.
I found the same problem after having it for a week and returned it. The company that I returned it to commented that they could not find anything wrong. But, it WAS there.
I think if I was a tech I could pick it up and play it for a few minutes and decide the same thing. I thought it was my particular instrument but maybe there is an issue with this model.
Now, to be fair, I also found a similar issue with a custom built guitar I bought and returned it also.

RE - "make it sound like its being processed through a chorus. That's unplugged."

On 12-19-2011, Davis Webb, Registered User of A.G.F. -wrote re the Yamaha NTX & NCX nylons.

"I found the sound about equal. Unplugged or plugged. I did DAT recordings of both at home, I auditioned each of them for about a week at home. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I particularly like this set of overtones you get when you pluck the high E string at the 2nd -5th fret, it rings and you get some nice harmonics that make it sound like its being processed through a chorus. That's unplugged.

They are very unique guitars, not really intended for classical, more for stuff like Sting was doing..."

I got to wonder if this isn't the same effect that you & I seemed to have heard with the La Patrie ?