Poll – Has your Martin had binding problems?

[Justbrandon]

I don’t currently own any martins, but I’ve owned a few that were made during that period. I never experienced the binding issue during my ownership and none of the used martins I bought from that period had disclosed any binding repairs.

I really want to add a 40 series Martin to my collection, but the prevalence of this binding issue is giving me serious pause.

[PeterM]

As noted above in post #25, my 00 has started with its binding issue.

What are the opinions regarding when to repair?

Mine has just started...not a complete lifting yet. And so far only in 1 spot.

Do I wait?
Maybe(Likely?) it will occur in more than one place?

I do have a warranty but doubt I will use it...unless our reasonably local Martin warranty person will do the work. He gets backed up for 6 months anyway so it will be a while. If I could get Martin to do the repair (I have heard they are not even accepting warranty work for this issue at this time) it will take at least as long.

Decisions, decisions! I have other guitars to play so I guess I am lucky in that regard.

Thanks in advance!!

[Humbuster]

2020 000-18 purchased new.

Binding problem noticed in early 2022. Repaired under warranty shortly after by local authorized Martin repair facility.

Guitar sold privately in Dec 2022 with full disclosure.

According to 2nd owner, binding was separating again in Nov 2023.

[Direstrats]

It appears they just could not get the formulation right for the tortoise binding, which is why on the 18 series they changed it to solid black in 2022 ??. Hoping this has solved the issue for the 18 series

See below at 8.49, just hoping this is ABS black with a Acetone Glue ( like Gibson etc and not Boltaron BLack as the bottled glue would not melt the binding into the wood if it was Boltaron. At least it appears roughened and not glossed at time of gluing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VligHnYQk6Q&t=556s


In the background, it appears they are using a solvent glue for black binding ( trigger gun and clear hose)....so who knows.

[Birdbrain]

I've never owned a Martin, so I have no vote here. As a guitar buyer, however, I'd be interested in the results.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

I've never owned a Martin, so I have no vote here. As a guitar buyer, however, I'd be interested in the results.

As of now (time stamp in post), 147 people have voted, 77 (52.4%) have not had issues with any guitars and 70 (47.6%) have issues with one or more guitars. Aside from the sample size being too small, there’s no way to tell what percentage of the 47% represents actual problems. And if people in the 52% group have multiple guitars, that dilutes the percentage further. My SWAG in another thread was 10 - 20%, which isn’t unreasonable based on these numbers.

[budglo]

My 2013 D18 didn’t have any issues until last year . I noticed the binding was coming loose . I took it to a Martin Service Center . Got it back 3 weeks later after they fixed all 4 waists . Did a great job. I have no intentions of selling it . It’s still a great guitar.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by sinistral

As of now (time stamp in post), 147 people have voted, 77 (52.4%) have not had issues with any guitars and 70 (47.6%) have issues with one or more guitars. Aside from the sample size being too small, there’s no way to tell what percentage of the 47% represents actual problems. And if people in the 52% group have multiple guitars, that dilutes the percentage further. My SWAG in another thread was 10 - 20%, which isn’t unreasonable based on these numbers.

Not sure I follow the math and how you suggest it supports the SWAG of 10% - 20%. If I were to extrapolate from the postings I would assume it's more like 30%-40%+

As was stated much earlier in the thread, the poll is fundamentally flawed to use as a basis for determining the scope of the issue. Without including total guitar counts involved it's still just guessing. Almost 50% of respondents have experienced the issue. Even if you include an estimate of total guitar counts involved I'm not sure how I would extrapolate own to 10% - 20%...

Seems like the percentage of affected guitars is actually higher than I originally assumed.

Not sure how we'd ever get a better idea of the scope, though.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

Not sure I follow the math and how you suggest it supports the SWAG of 10% - 20%. If I were to extrapolate from the postings I would assume it's more like 30%-40%+

As was stated much earlier in the thread, the poll is fundamentally flawed to use as a basis for determining the scope of the issue. Without including total guitar counts involved it's still just guessing. Almost 50% of respondents have experienced the issue. Even if you include an estimate of total guitar counts involved I'm not sure how I would extrapolate own to 10% - 20%...

Seems like the percentage of affected guitars is actually higher than I originally assumed.

Not sure how we'd ever get a better idea of the scope, though.

The way I came up with that—fully admitting it that it was a wild-assed guess, a technical term—is as follows. We don’t know how many guitars are in either category. People—especially people here—often have multiple guitars. If we assume for sake of simplicity that the number of guitars is the same in both camps, then the question is, what percentage of the 47% has problems? We know that some people are 3 for 3 or even 4 for 4, but plenty of others (including me) have a lower incidence. Is it half? That would be around 23%. Is it one-third? That would be a little more than 15%. That’s how I come up with 10 - 20%.

Granted, we don’t know how old the guitars are that haven’t had a problem, but there are older guitars (2012, 2013, etc.) that haven’t had a problem. More importantly, 147 responses won’t tell us much out of tens of thousands of guitars built in the subject period.

I think that, if the rate of occurrence were higher than ~20%, the backlash would be even greater than it is.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by Mr. Paul

A frustrating issue for owners, but proving damages in court would be difficult. I'm sure Martin lawyers would argue that they have been making it right with their customers via warranty repair and that those that have acquired affected guitars via the used market are not their concern. Buyers outside the US that have defective guitars with no warranty would have the best argument but non U.S. citizens suing a U.S. Corporation would be a sticky wicket.

While the outrageous wait times for warranty repair bring up the issue of loss of use, the vast majority of owners are not professionals so it would be difficult to assign a significant $ amount of damages resulting from a hobbyist being without their guitar for a few months.

How about the cost of shipping the guitar to a certified repair center? That's not an insignificant cost, and many of us do not live a reasonable distance from a certified Martin tech. Fact is, Martin reportedly reimburses poorly for the service, evidenced by the scant warranty repair network. As a result, most techs--not to mention the Nazareth factory--are backlogged at least 6 months. It may be hard to claim $ damages for that time lost, but certainly the $100 each way to ship to the nearest center--or gas and lodging and missed work to drive it 8 hours away--are quantifiable.

[BluesKing777]

Nobody mentions the finish needing a retouch - it can look nasty and can be a LOT of work......say all 4 waists have come loose, the finish needs work on both sides of the binding = 8 areas of finish retouch........cost me a lot! (No lifetime warranty outside US = me pay, yay!)

One needed doing again! Yi Yi.

You can tell the touch ups - either that or refinish the whole guitar.



BluesKing777.

[davidd]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Nobody mentions the finish needing a retouch - it can look nasty and can be a LOT of work......say all 4 waists have come loose, the finish needs work on both sides of the binding = 8 areas of finish retouch........cost me a lot! (No lifetime warranty outside US = me pay, yay!)

One needed doing again! Yi Yi.

You can tell the touch ups - either that or refinish the whole guitar.



BluesKing777.

The Martin apologists will never commiserate with you and the rest of us that have gone through the expense of fixing these guitars. It's all about the supposed "Martin tone" whatever that is, being worth the hassle.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by davidd

The Martin apologists will never commiserate with you and the rest of us that have gone through the expense of fixing these guitars. It's all about the supposed "Martin tone" whatever that is, being worth the hassle.

This is a very unnecessary post. What others think has nothing to do with your situation, or anyone else's.

I have a 2012 Martin with no issues. If the binding starts to separate, I will likely fix it myself as soon as I see it start. Problem solved. I'm not going to get worked up over it and flail around on a guitar forum repeating the same tired story over and over again.

If someone else had it happen and paid to have it fixed, and they don't have heartburn over it, so be it. To some of us, $100-$200 isn't a significant expense and might simple 'be worth it' to that person. That's not a fault or flaw... it simply is what it is.

For those that have a lot of heartburn over it, then please pursue every legal remedy there is and don't buy any more Martin guitars. That's pretty simple and straightforward.

It sounds like you expect everyone to share your opinion, and that simply isn't going to happen... on this issue, or likely on ANY topic because people are free to form their own opinions and respond accordingly.

Lastly, I don't see people here excusing Martin from owning the issue or saying that it's not an issue. I just see differences in how people responding to it. If you don't like that, I really don't care (nor do the rest of us that don't share your perspective/reaction).

On that note, have a great day! There are plenty of others things more interesting to discuss...

[ALBD]

I don't think Davidd was painting with a broad brush there. He limited his comment to Martin apologists. But good on you for not letting yourself be bothered by what seems to be a pretty big Q issue with these guitars.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by ALBD

I don't think Davidd was painting with a broad brush there. He limited his comment to Martin apologists. But good on you for not letting yourself be bothered by what seems to be a pretty big QI issue with these guitars.

That's the point. I don't see a lot of Martin apologists here so I don't really know who he is referring to... there are a lot of us that just aren't as bothered by it. That doesn't equate to being an apologist. I don't think I've seen anyone say that there isn't an issue. Some of us just aren't worked up over it.

*shrug*